Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No offense, but who are you to even question me? It is my opinion and I think it makes sense.
Answer my question: Who are YOU to determine how someone defines HIMSELF?
I guess it gives it some people a sense of superiority to categorize another person and take away from them, autonomy in self-identification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
But we have a majority in America who are quite fond of the race that they are--it conveys to them great social privilege and status...so that's not going to happen for at least another hundred years.
Absolutely. The whole concept of color and race is only a few centuries old and was used by European colonist to "other" and justify domination. American's like to pretend like they don't see race and are colorblind, but categorization is alive and well. I don't think it'll be going away anytime soon since the boomers, X, and millennials have all been socialized to do it even if they don't want to admit it.
The mixture is there whether one is a "white" with 5% African genetic heritage or "black" with 20% European heritage.
The admixture is a fact.
No one can separate an African American from his African heritage unless he allows it, no matter what degree the admixture is.
Anyone is free to choose the culture with which he identifies, whether the admixture is 50% African/50% European or 75% African/25% European. And anyone with any admixture ratio is free to identify himself as biracial (or multi-racial) if he desires. No one can "deny African Americans the right to call themselves black". That includes those who have been surprised to find their European admixture was far greater than 20%.
P.S. I do not think the "one drop rule" is an issue any more.
Why is this debate worthy of time spent. If some one looks like a Congolese but wishes to say that they are a Swede let them.
Of course they rest of us know different and will humor him. Arguing about supposed ancestry is useless because the same siblings with the same parents might look different, yet clearly have the same ancestry.
What is important is that people from all backgrounds should have equal access to opportunity with out regard to assumptions about what their ancestry might be. If this was true I suspect that no one would care about who has which ancestry and what they call themselves.
Why is this debate worthy of time spent. If some one looks like a Congolese but wishes to say that they are a Swede let them.
Of course they rest of us know different and will humor him. Arguing about supposed ancestry is useless because the same siblings with the same parents might look different, yet clearly have the same ancestry.
What is important is that people from all backgrounds should have equal access to opportunity with out regard to assumptions about what their ancestry might be. If this was true I suspect that no one would care about who has which ancestry and what they call themselves.
Now that DNA testing is affordable for so many people, more are going to find out that their ancestry was not what they always assumed it was. If someone wants to identify with the minority part of his genetic heritage, why not? Why is that "humoring" him?
Can we really expect to see an end to racism unless all of us no longer care whether someone who looks like a Congolese identifies more with his Swedish heritage? Do you have to have 50/50 admixture before you can identify more with one than the other?
As long as those on both sides keep the focus on looks, racism is here to stay.
Now that DNA testing is affordable for so many people, more are going to find out that their ancestry was not what they always assumed it was. If someone wants to identify with the minority part of his genetic heritage, why not? Why is that "humoring" him?
And can we really expect to see an end to racism unless all of us no longer care whether someone who looks like a Congolese identifies more with his Swedish heritage?
As long as those on both sides keep the focus on looks, racism is here to stay.
And what does DNA testing prove. I have cousins who share the same ancestry, and yet look radically different.
The fact is that a white person who is 5% black isn't likely to identify as black. On the other hand there are blacks who are 20% white who might want to use that to claim that they aren't black. That is usually because there is a long tradition throughout the Americas that being black is bad. So this need to identify with the minority side is almost always used as a distancing strategy by some to escape the stigma of what being black is. Let us call it for what it is, and be HONEST.
Pardon me if my response to you is that those who engage in it need to be humored, because those who look down on blacks, will not think differently merely because he decides to avoid being black. In Brazil they make a deal about the 200 ways that one can avoid being black, and I happen to have one of those cards, being 80% African. And yet the security guards were just as interested in having me explain why I was in the hotel as they would have been were I 100% African.
And what does DNA testing prove. I have cousins who share the same ancestry, and yet look radically different.
The fact is that a white person who is 5% black isn't likely to identify as black. On the other hand there are blacks who are 20% white who might want to use that to claim that they aren't black. That is usually because there is a long tradition throughout the Americas that being black is bad. So this need to identify with the minority side is almost always used as a distancing strategy by some to escape the stigma of what being black is. Let us call it for what it is, and be HONEST.
Pardon me if my response to you is that those who engage in it need to be humored, because those who look down on blacks, will not think differently merely because he decides to avoid being black. In Brazil they make a deal about the 200 ways that one can avoid being black, and I happen to have one of those cards, despite being 80% African. And yet the security guards were just as interested in having me explain why I was in the hotel as they would have been were I 100% African.
Perhaps you cannot have it both ways: make a big deal about color of skin and do away with racism?
Absolutely. The whole concept of color and race is only a few centuries old and was used by European colonist to "other" and justify domination. American's like to pretend like they don't see race and are colorblind, but categorization is alive and well. I don't think it'll be going away anytime soon since the boomers, X, and millennials have all been socialized to do it even if they don't want to admit it.
We Boomers were the last generation to actually experience apartheid. Despite Brown v Topeka, schools were still segregated for me until I entered junior high; and despite the Civil Rights Act, the last time I sat in segregated movie seating was July 20, 1969.
I believe, though, that after Boomers are dead and when Millennials are firmly in control of politics and industry--about 30 years from now--with no controlling influence from anyone who actually experienced apartheid, they'll let it go.
Perhaps you cannot have it both ways: make a big deal about color of skin and do away with racism?
What are you babbling about?
Why not worry more about a world where a man who has blue eyes and blonde hair isn't viewed more favorably than another with chocolate brown skin, full lips and tightly curled hair.
Don't expect me to endorse some "get out of blackness" strategy so that those who think that they are mixed can fool themselves into thinking that this means that they will get more than their less mixed LOOKING siblings. Because at the end of the day if society views blackness negatively it doesn't matter what you call yourself.
look at Latin America. Mulattos fighting to ensure that blacks know that they are Kings of the Ghetto, to quote an African American woman who used to live in San Juan, PR where she worked for Citicorp in municipal bond underwriting, when PR bonds where more marketable than they are today. She definitely indicated that in PR its being white, light skinned mestizo, or VERY light skinned mulatto that gets one places. The others can fight amongst themselves about who is 1/32 lighter than whom, so getting a different way to describe themselves, while they remain outside the corridors of power.
Put it this way, very few people looking like your typical reggaeton singer will be Governor of PR even after they put in an expensive suit. You will sooner get a black Miss PR to be a contestant at Miss Universe. So pull out all your DNA ancestry and fight about the 5% differentials between one person and another.
We Boomers were the last generation to actually experience apartheid. Despite Brown v Topeka, schools were still segregated for me until I entered junior high; and despite the Civil Rights Act, the last time I sat in segregated movie seating was July 20, 1969.
I believe, though, that after Boomers are dead and when Millennials are firmly in control of politics and industry--about 30 years from now--with no controlling influence from anyone who actually experienced apartheid, they'll let it go.
Lets hope so for your sake though when I see that most white millennials in NYC hang out almost exclusively with other white millennials I don't share your confidence. While race is less a factor for them than it is for their parents, they aren't color blind, though they may really think that they are. Please take note of the various racially insensitive events that happen on many college campuses.
You don't have to hope so for my sake, because I'll be one of those dead Boomers.
Quote:
though when I see that most white millennials in NYC hang out almost exclusively with other white millennials I don't share your confidence. While race is less a factor for them than it is for their parents, they aren't color blind, though they may really think that they are. Please take note of the various racially insensitive events that happen on many college campuses.
I see that, but they're still in a racially conscious environment controlled by a generation that is deliberately keeping it racially conscious. It's still pretty hard to be racially unconscious when you're still living with racially conscious parents.
I suspect that when Boomers are gone, millennials will give it up.
You don't have to hope so for my sake, because I'll be one of those dead Boomers.
I suspect that when Boomers are gone, millennials will give it up.
I have more hope that the grand kids of the millennials will.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
