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I visited Colombia for the first time in February. I only visited Medellin, as it was the cheapest direct flight from South Florida (only 3 hours). I can tell you that Medellin is a very well put together city, lots of educated folks and relatively safe, especially in the El Pablodo (sp?) neighborhood. lots to see and do, although I thought the nightlife was pretty cheesy, it was pretty diverse offering way more than just Latin music, which I hear is pretty rare for Colombia as I'm told in cities such as Cali, all you will get is Salsa.
From further research, I can tell you that is country is was safer than mexico. Although don't use that as an excuse to be naive.
The locals are extremely friendly and helpful and will go out of their way to offer assistance. Case in point my Spanish is not that strong so they bent over backwards to help me when I was trying to order food, and even other customers would go out of their way to help out when the cashier did not know English.
Extortion seems to be the new thing in Latin America. Armed robberies and kidnapping are too much trouble, extortion is much easier and brings in steady money.
Well if only the truth about latin-america were different. I don't mean to sound rude, but some of you folks need to come here and live for a while, you really have no idea..... most americans don't. There's a HUGE difference between a 2 week vacation, and living here for years, every day, like one of the locals. Besides you'd be suprised how many tourists DO get into trouble. I know because I read about it.
These criminal gangs bring in, pardon my french "butt-loads" of money. They have a HUGE black market of stolen goods and it's hard to trace. In some of these home robberies they might make away with $30,000 pesos in stolen money and goods...you'd be very surprised. As much as it happens, the extreme frequency that it happens, do think they would do that if it wasn't worth it? The fact is they "love it" they even have underground "street" schools" were street kids can go and learn how to do this stuff. They busted a husband and wife last year here for doing just that. They were recruiting on the streets and charging a "tuition" even using videos, home computers and having "demonstrations" on how to beat up people, break into their homes, cars. You'd be suprised at the agility, intelligence and ingenuity on how much knowledge these guys have and use to do what they do.....you'd be shocked. Also, most often drugs and booze are involved. These guys even trade stolen goods to get laid by street hookers. Alot of them use the stolen stuff to buy "paco" the argentine word for "street meth" it's a big problem here.
Extortion most certainly isn't anything new at all here, it's been quite rampant here for a LONG time. It's just that you're hearing more about it now. Armed robbery and kidnapping also really to be honest isn't that much trouble for all of these repeat offenders, they really have very little to lose. Most hardened criminals here usually don't do very much hard-time to be honest, and they know they won't. Eespecially when you have a corrupt police force and judicial system as well....like most latin-american countries have.
Many times, even if it's an armed robbery, if they don't have a prior offense the judges here will let them off the hook, they might spend 5 - 7 days in jail, that's about it. Or, like in many cases, if the family bribes the judge, or threatens him ( which happens alot, many judges here fear what's known as "Ajuste de cuentas" or a revenge attack or killing, it happens more often than you think here ) If they are minors, all bets are off. They'll burglarize a house, beat some one up, get arrested and in 48 hours they're released back into parental custody, only to be back to robbing and thieving as soon as they hit the streets. And this vicious cycle continues time, after time, after time, after time.....that's the reality of south america.
Also the police work with the criminals here. They'll follow-up on a robbery ( especially in certain areas, it's always the same guys that get out and commit the same crimes ) so the police know all of these guys personally. They'll then go and an launch an "allanamiento" ( police raid ) where these criminal gangs live. Many times these criminal games occupy vacant house in certain neighborhoods. They'll show up and bust everybody and then say - "You and you, I know what you did, either you share half of the loot with me or a certain percentage of the money you stole or I'll take you in" That's the reality here.
Or even worse and very common, the police stake out homes, tell the criminals to go and break-in, so they do, they go to the houses that the cops tell them to go to and beat everyone up, rob the place blind and then the criminals actually go and meet the cops after a robbery, share the loot and stolen money and the cops look the other way.....that's the reality here, happens everywhere all the time...time after time after time. Also, oftentimes, it's actually policemen themsleves involved in the crimes, it was in my friends case just last late July. I know the police station and where it's at. My friend went to go press charges and when he went, he recognized one of the police officers as one of the "burglars" that did the "shakedown" and robbed him and his family blind, beat up his father-in-law. When they saw him, the police chief took him aside and said: "You say anything, I know where you live and where you're kids go to school" that's the reality here. Needless to say, he's leaving, packing up his wife, kids and Argentine in-laws and heading for the states. If he doesn't these guys are just going to do it again, and then next time, he might pay with his life and he knows it.
Another american friend of mine who was robbed and shot 3 times back in November during a VERY violent home invasion will never be the same. He still has a bullet fragment lodged next to his spine. His 4 year old is still in therapy over what she heard and saw. His father-in-law had his face turned into hamburger meat by these guys while they pillaged his home, threatened everyone and tied everyone up on the floor. You know the worst? A few months ago, he was riding in the bus through the downtown area of our city. At a bus stop, he looks out the window and there, walking down the streets was one of the guys who was involved in the robbery when he was shot, walking, smiling, laughing with "a babe under each arm" yet he was told the purpotrators we're caught and went to prison!? That's the reality here.
My wife told me just last night that the lady who runs the pasta shop down the street is hearing from neighbors to be vigilant that three youths looking suspicious have been wandering around our neighborhood....folks suspect they are looking for trouble....I believe them. My wife had a co-worker at work who's grandparents were robbed violently just last weekend. Everybody here has either been robbed, assaulted themselves, or knows someone or some folks that have. Our old Landlords of where we used to live, retirees from Spain, they've been violently robbed twice in the 10 years they've been here. An older couple was violently robbed and beaten a half a block from my home a year before we moved in and last year, a neighbor, two doors down had their car stolen, while they watched from the front window in broad daylight, from right in front of their house. And this is considered a safe, quiet suburban middle-class neighborhood! In other parts of the city it's even worse although it can strike anywhere in any part of the city and does frequently. And we don't even live in what really is considered one of the real major cities in this country ....that's reality here
Yeah everyone who thinks it's a paradise living in latin-america. It's a beautiful place, really has alot of great things. You meet the best and the worst of people here. But you live here long enough, you'll see, You'll change and you'll go through some very unpleasant things, very unpleasant things....I can guarantee you that!
Last edited by EricOldTime; 09-04-2014 at 04:26 PM..
Also, the problem with crime statistics, and I suspect that Colombia and other latin american countries are the same is that "they are largely inacurate" to be quite honest. In Argentina, as in other latin countries that I'm sure are no exception, there is a general mistrust of local authorities, especially the police, people don't trust them and are afraid of them. And also not only that, they fear reprisals from the criminals themselves ( and for good reason ) so they estimate that 6 to possibly 7 out of every 10 crimes commited, robberies, even violent ones, are not even reported to the police. So even though many statistics tout Argentina and other countries as statistically safe in latin-america, I don't by the hype that these countries are as safe as they're advertised to be quite honestly. And, most people here don't buy it as well, they'll tell you. I'll be honest, it was never really very secure since I've lived here, crimes were constantly happening all around us, but the last few years it has really reached critical mass, at least it seems here in Argentina, Things are REALLY deteriorating even more, and fast. I'm taking my wife and my 2 year old back to the US within the year.
This is why all this vigilante stuff is going on, people are frustrated, they don't trust the corrupt police, because they are corrupt, and the people are reaching a breaking point with SOOO much crime, some are taking matters into their own hands...
When my wife and I were told by "El Fiscal" that they had caught the three guys that had broken into our house and stole our stuff ( we got a few things back ) they wanted us to press charges. We said "absolutely not" "we have a 2 year old child and I'm not putting me, my wife and my son at risk" for reprisal. So, the guys walked I'm sure, they would've anyway in short order.....and this happens all the time. I mean, if we do that, we are literally taking our lives in our own hands. So, this is why things are the way they are.
Last edited by EricOldTime; 09-04-2014 at 04:34 PM..
Medellin is a really cool city, you should visit it
the thing about Colombia is that you have to be street smart, basically a new yorker could do well navigating colombia
like many american cities, colombian cities have no go places and places where u wanna go
so for example in medellin you want to stay away from the comunas, because that is where you have all the crime, but many other parts of the city are fine.
colombia is coming out of its dark ages, an era of unprecedented violence, las farc, terrorism..... it was awful (I still remember), the country has changes massively
it still has ways to go but it's going that way which is a good thing
we are just opening up to the world, so many places are still unexplored, unknown even by colombians and the tourism industry is just starting to develop, so it is a place that is good to visit before its taken over by globalization and massive tourism.
in the 90's there werent even mcdonalds here, it was really closed off to the world because of the drug violence and also it didnt help that it was so stigmatized as a country by the sensationalist western media in their effort to sell headlines.... about 6 years ago the country started to change (drug cartel violence reached its climax and its been declining ever since)
now the famous kidnappings only occur to political figures of high profile, (the common tourist or person has nothing to fear), and violence from las farc is mostly congregated in the deep jungles of colombia and in the poorest neighborhoods in the big cities (any colombian will tell u where to go and where not to go)
everything is booming and changing
I grew up in the pablo escobar colombia, it was a paradise engulfed by war.
Eric if we're gonna fear everything and not go anywhere because it's dangerous out there, then we shouldnt even leave our house.
Look at the US for example, there are gangs in most cities, racial issues, guns everywhere, highschool shootings, meth is epidemic, KKK, black panthers, cities like st louis, new orleans, detroit, cleveland have crime rates comparable to some of the most dangerous cities on the planet, american cops are trigger happy and many racially profile folks etc. etc. etc. yet when you go to the US you find an amazing place and you wont have these issues most likely, yes many tourists can also get in trouble.
same can be said about latin america.
I lived in colombia, the US, panama... and I have never been robbed in any of these places, the only place where Ive been robbed was in SWITZERLAND!!! they robbed me with a knife (they stole 350 euros) in geneva switzerland (the land of rich bankers, lakes, mountains and blonde hair blue eyes germanic swiss people)
anywhere ou go in the world you'll have certain negative issues, if you focus on them and fear them, you're just going to live a life full of paranoia
I remember when I went to los angeles with a friend of mine from wisconsin who had never left the mid west before, as soon as he saw the sign of (entering los angeles county) he locked the doors and rolled the windows up..... he was horrified, he spent a week there with me and he was fine, loved it in fact, his misconceptions came from movies, news, and so and so told him that LA was dangerous.
Irene-cd, Are you then saying that Eric is not correct reference the amount of crime in "safe" parts of the cities? One would think these criminals would target middle class neighborhoods for burglaries and robberies. I would think there would also be many carjackings, as in South Africa.
Being street smart is fine but isn't going to help much in a violent home invasion. Nor will it help to change the cops and the judicial system any. How many of the cops they hire have records themselves?
I would hardly compare the crime in the states to Columbia or other such countries. If you go to south Chicago at night you may be robbed or shot, but it's doubtful your house in Libertyville will have a home invasion. So let's keep things in perspective. There's a chance of robbery anywhere but what are the percentages?
Todd, Colombia's crime is mostly LAS FARC / drug lord related.... sort of like in italy where most murderings are Mafia related.
If you dont belong to that world, you have nothing to fear
as far as home invasions never met any one who had their house robbed in Colombia, I think that is mostly a Brazil issue....
las farc kidnaps high profile political figures, (high ranking politicians, Colombia's top military officers, Oil tycoons involved in the oil industry in colombia, political opposition etc. etc.) they dont care about john doe the tourist from Amarillo texas and his 700 dollar bank account or tracy from toronto canada and her 90 dollar camera from best buy!
the shantytowns or comunas like we call them (favelas), are dangerous but not just for tourists, for anyone who is not from there because that is where a lot of the ex-guerrilla members and the ex-paramilitary lives and they are now fighting for territory.... if you dont go to a comuna you'll be fine!!
as far as comparable crime, I think Colombia has more crime of the thugs killing each other category, but america has more serial killers, high school shootings, psychos just coming into a public place and start firing kind of crime, that doesnt mean you wont go to the US because someone might just walk into the shopping mall you're in and is gonna start firing rounds!
As far as getting robbed, bogota is a city comparable in size to chicago and medellin is comparable to atlanta.... (you wouldnt go with your expensive cartier watch, or 800 dollar camera walking around south chicago or atlanta's ghetto would you?) same thing applies to colombia!!!
if you're a worldly tourist, nothing will happen to you
Was 1986-2003 Colombia worse than 1993-2011 El Salvador, 2004-2010 Jamaica or 2007-2014 Honduras?
in the 70's colombia was a safe place, my parents would leave doors unlocked and a murder would make national headlines...
it all went to hell in the 80's when the cocaine trade was booming and pablo escobar came to power, you'd hear bombs going off because pablo escobar was fighting the gacha brothers from cali over the control of the drug trade, so they'd terrorize each other's cities, in cities like medellin pablo escobar was paying payed killers to kill any cop for the sum of 500 dollars which in the 80's was big bucks so a lot of shanty town dwelling hood rats were game!
during that time colombia dominated the entire drug trade all over the planet and they would wash tons of money by building luxurious condos in miami's south beach etc.
that was the era when colombians migrated massively to jackson heights in queens NY and they became an element to reckon with in miami, that decade gave the world the colombian necktie (like in the movie scarface)
After pablo escobar's death and griselda blanco's capture by the FBI in the early 90's, the whole thing fell apart and it left a lot of scum unemployed killing each other, plus las farc desperate to get a slice of the cake intensified its fight, it was less horrible than the 80's but plenty of killings, social cleaning (when people would be added to a list of people that would be murdered because they were corrupted or messed with the wrong person, or were drug addicted etc.)
around the year 2002 the mexicans took over the business and Uribe started attacking las farc to the point it dismantled the whole thing...
after that crime in colombia has fallen dramatically to the point colombia is not even among the top 10 most dangerous countries on the planet.
Crime in colombia was different from crime in central america, they have gangs fighting each other, that doesnt really exist in colombia.... violence here was drug cartel related
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