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I read on a blog that the fed. government is now warning Americans not to enter three counties in south Arizona because it's too dangerous. Is this really true?
I think the danger is mostly with politicians (on both sides of the aisle) in Washington, DC, who make laws that suit their own agenda, when it comes to protecting our border.
Go look at crime statistics for Arizona cities along the border with Mexico, they are statistically very safe.
I can't believe people actually let a few incidents that are blown up in the media cause them to declare an area (that they have obviously never been to) a war zone or compare it to DMZ in Korea. The wife and I were recently leaving Bisbee and we headed SW along 92, from the road where you can see the big wall, and stopped and had a picnic in the desert near Coronado, absolutely lovely time.
Go look at crime statistics for Arizona cities along the border with Mexico, they are statistically very safe.
I can't believe people actually let a few incidents that are blown up in the media cause them to declare an area (that they have obviously never been to) a war zone or compare it to DMZ in Korea. The wife and I were recently leaving Bisbee and we headed SW along 92, from the road where you can see the big wall, and stopped and had a picnic in the desert near Coronado, absolutely lovely time.
Somehow I missed all the rockets and gunfire.
I suspect the family of Robert Krentz would disagree.
Part of the reason for the low crime statistics on the border is the same reason that the towns around state prisons are statistically pretty safe as well - if someone escapes from prison, they don't want to hang around in the area but want to get as far away as possible so they can blend in with a larger crowd.
Much of the violence along the border is directed at Border Patrol Officers, other law enforcement officers, and illegal aliens themselves, who are preyed upon by the gangs of traffickers (drug and humans) who roam the area. The beatings, extortions, homicides, and rapes that occur are seldom reported and don't become part of the stats. Violence against federal officers are usually on unincorporated land and do not become part of the city crime statistics. A lot of the violence happens on tribal land and is also not included in the statistics.
Violent crime is on the downswing in the Valley, for which you can thank the professionalism of the police, as well as the effect of previous state employer sanctions, the economy, and SB 1070. Not all crime is violent, however. The rate of identity theft, through the misuse of social security numbers, is almost certainly on the upswing. Try checking your credit rating through one of the credit reporting services to see who else is using your social security number, you may be surprised by what you find.
I suspect the family of Robert Krentz would disagree.
I could also claim that your odds are low of winning the lottery, then you could site a winner who's family would disagree. That logic is about as sound.
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Part of the reason for the low crime statistics on the border is the same reason that the towns around state prisons are statistically pretty safe as well - if someone escapes from prison, they don't want to hang around in the area but want to get as far away as possible so they can blend in with a larger crowd.
I've not looked it up but I'd wager prison escapes by violent offenders are so rare it's a statistical non-factor. Seriously, how many dangerous felons do you think escape from a given prison per year to impact the nearest town?
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Much of the violence along the border is directed at Border Patrol Officers, other law enforcement officers, and illegal aliens themselves, who are preyed upon by the gangs of traffickers (drug and humans) who roam the area.
Which border city in Arizona are these gangs roaming in? I've spent time in many cities along the border from Yuma all the way East to Naco but have yet to encounter a roaming gang.
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Violent crime is on the downswing in the Valley, for which you can thank the professionalism of the police, as well as the effect of previous state employer sanctions, the economy, and SB 1070.
Which crime statistics can you tie to SB1070? Crime stats are usually a lagging indicator that are released annually, which ones are you using to support your claim that this law that doesn't go into effect until July 28th has impacted?
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Try checking your credit rating through one of the credit reporting services to see who else is using your social security number, you may be surprised by what you find.
Definitely a good idea. My wife and I check our credit reports regularly.
I could also claim that your odds are low of winning the lottery, then you could site a winner who's family would disagree. That logic is about as sound..
The logic is pretty good on that. No one can say for sure what the odds are of becoming a victim of violent crime, but by being a good citizen (reporting drug smugglers who had passed through his property the day before, offering charity and water to illegal aliens who were on his property, owning a business near the border] Krenz apparently increased the odds of becoming a victim of violent crime far above his chances of winning the lottery. My point is that violent crime is very high on the border, which does not consist solely of cities, slackjaw.
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I've not looked it up but I'd wager prison escapes by violent offenders are so rare it's a statistical non-factor. Seriously, how many dangerous felons do you think escape from a given prison per year to impact the nearest town?.
It happens, particularly from low-security facilities for juveniles, women, etc. (I didn't say violent criminals). My uncle the former CO said they generally try to make as much space between the prison and themselves as they can. If you talk to the people who live around Florence and other facilities, they will tell you they are very safe communities for that reason.
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Which border city in Arizona are these gangs roaming in? I've spent time in many cities along the border from Yuma all the way East to Naco but have yet to encounter a roaming gang..
Again, most of these incidents happen on unincorporated land, not border cities. These are the areas illegal aliens pass through, not on the streets of towns. Unless you are an illegal alien who is travelling on foot through the desert, I doubt you will run into a roaming gang. Some of them are drug couriers who see a chance to extort some money out of a group of aliens they encounter, or a chance to sexually assault some of the females. Some are drug couriers who see a chance to kill members of a rival group and take their load.
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Which crime statistics can you tie to SB1070? Crime stats are usually a lagging indicator that are released annually, which ones are you using to support your claim that this law that doesn't go into effect until July 28th has impacted?.
You are aware that previous laws have been passed in this state providing sanctions against employers who hire illegal aliens, and these have been credited (along with a lagging economy) in the departure of illegal aliens from Arizona, right? If you look at the big thread on this issue, this is something that has been discussed a lot already. I wasn't talking about SB 1070, which, as you stated, has not yet taken effect. Violent crime stats are showing a downward trend in the state, and the role of employer sanctions arguably contributed to that, as well as other factors.
This story seems to be getting some play here because of the FOX segment with the uninvolved sheriff of Pinal County, Paul Babeu.
The story on FOX is recent but the closure of acerage in BANWR happened in 2006, or 4 years ago as referenced earlier. Of course, the refuge is only in Pima County. This three county nonsense comes from.............. I don't know.
It is on the border in a remote area and they don't want anyone to be hurt or killed by smugglers. I doubt anyone likes this, but I would prefer no one be murdered, assaulted or have some other crime perpetrated than have access to that area. Plenty of the refuge is still open and you can enjoy it. How many here have been there? Probably not many, it's in the middle of nowhere IMO. I was there about three weeks ago. There were only about two other people there.
Babeu is furthering an agenda and spreading misinformation.
Last edited by mauiwowie; 06-19-2010 at 04:25 PM..
This story seems to be getting some play here because of the FOX segment with the uninvolved sheriff of Pinal County, Paul Babeu.
The story on FOX is recent but the closure of acerage in BANWR happened in 2006, or 4 years ago as referenced earlier. Of course, the refuge is only in Pima County. This three county nonsense comes from.............. I don't know.
It is on the border in a remote area and they don't anyone to be hurt or killed by smugglers. I doubt anyone likes this, but I would prefer no one be murdered, assaulted or have some other crime perpetrated than have access to that area. Plenty of the refuge is still open and you can enjoy it. How many here have been there? Probably not many, it's in the middle of nowhere IMO. I was there about three weeks ago. There were only about two other people there.
Babeu is furthering an agenda and spreading misinformation.
Lots of people are doing the same thing and then swearing it's fact. Irritates me! The OP said they read it on a blog which, last I knew, wasn't 'news'. Someone picked that youtube up online and posted it on their blog without doing any research to see how truthful it was. Happens ALL the time in forums and blogs.
I was wondering where the "three counties" came from too. I've never heard a word mentioned about that. Someone not paying attention or exaggarating. That happens all the time too. Heck, I take half the news reported with a grain of salt because who really knows?? I've had enough experience with news reporters and newspapers to know that they make a lot of mistakes so that makes me a bit leary of ANY news report.
Also wanted to mention that, especially, this time of year I wouldn't really expect to see much activity by 'out of the way' characters down in the desert. Unless they've got a death wish or something. At night? Maybe.
Last edited by AZDesertBrat; 06-19-2010 at 03:43 PM..
Reason: To add a thought...
This story seems to be getting some play here because of the FOX segment with the uninvolved sheriff of Pinal County, Paul Babeu.
It is on the border in a remote area and they don't anyone to be hurt or killed by smugglers. I doubt anyone likes this, but I would prefer no one be murdered, assaulted or have some other crime perpetrated than have access to that area. Plenty of the refuge is still open and you can enjoy it. How many here have been there? Probably not many, it's in the middle of nowhere IMO. I was there about three weeks ago. There were only about two other people there.
Babeu is furthering an agenda and spreading misinformation.
I agree to a point, Mauiwowie . . .
Regardless of your feelings, either positive or negative, towards Sheriff Paul Babeu or the importance of the Off Limits area, considering the taxpayers of the United States spend BILLIONS defending the borders of countries all around the world, there should NEVER be an area even the size of a small city block so designated in this country.
The time has come for Obama and his Goons to quit the Race Card Crap and SUPPORT the citizens of Arizona every way possible including sending ARMED TROOPS to the border. This entire shameful scenario is a travesty as well as an embarrassment for all of us.
A World Power COWERING to a GAGGLE OF COMMON THUGS?
Regardless of your feelings, either positive or negative, towards Sheriff Paul Babeu or the importance of the Off Limits area, considering the taxpayers of the United States spend BILLIONS defending the borders of countries all around the world, there should NEVER be an area even the size of a small city block so designated in this country.
The time has come for Obama and his Goons to quit the Race Card Crap and SUPPORT the citizens of Arizona every way possible including sending ARMED TROOPS to the border. This entire shameful scenario is a travesty as well as an embarrassment for all of us.
A World Power COWERING to a GAGGLE OF COMMON THUGS?
I think it's a matter of resources. How much time and money would need to be spent to ensure the safety of visitors? What is the cost, direct and otherwise of spending those resources in such a manner? When I was there USBP was too.
I'm not saying that it's good news we've closed an area for four years and will continue until who knows when. I'm just wondering what amount of effort would be required to keep it safe. Is it worth it at all costs? Should it be opened at our own risk with warning signs? What if someone is attacked or killed wither smugglers by hunters or innocent nature lovers?
I'm not viewing it as cowering to thugs and criminals, but as a pragmatic approach to a much bigger, much more serious problem. I don't have all the information, however, it seems like they had to make a hard choice.
Lots of people are doing the same thing and then swearing it's fact. Irritates me! The OP said they read it on a blog which, last I knew, wasn't 'news'. Someone picked that youtube up online and posted it on their blog without doing any research to see how truthful it was. Happens ALL the time in forums and blogs.
I was wondering where the "three counties" came from too. I've never heard a word mentioned about that. Someone not paying attention or exaggarating. That happens all the time too. Heck, I take half the news reported with a grain of salt because who really knows?? I've had enough experience with news reporters and newspapers to know that they make a lot of mistakes so that makes me a bit leary of ANY news report.
Also wanted to mention that, especially, this time of year I wouldn't really expect to see much activity by 'out of the way' characters down in the desert. Unless they've got a death wish or something. At night? Maybe.
It's amazing because some will post links based on headlines only and have no idea about any other content or if it's even true. Some post blog links and opinion pieces as "news". It is irritating.
The area is patrolled 24X7. I do believe more activity occurs at night usually though.
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