Why is Arizona so cheap compared to California (Phoenix, Sedona: ski resort, for sale)

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by Quirinius324

All I'm saying is that you will eventually run out of land in any given metro area, especially if it's mostly single family homes. I have nothing against single family homes. I'd like to live in one myself someday! Add another 2-3 million people to Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta, and you'll see prices starting to rise there too. The desirable, reasonably close, land will eventually be used up, except for those who want to drive in from an hour and a half way. People COULD live in Poughkeepsie or Oxnard or Davis if they wanted to, but commuting becomes too laborious. With enough people moving in, that's the destiny of every metro area.

You are making the assumption that newer cities will grow as certain cities have - all centered on a central business district where most people commute into the downtown area. However, there are a good many cities where there are business centers in the downtown area and in several other locations through the metro area. Chicago ans multiple suburbs that have large business districts that function independently of the downtown area.

[Quirinius324]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

You are making the assumption that newer cities will grow as certain cities have - all centered on a central business district where most people commute into the downtown area. However, there are a good many cities where there are business centers in the downtown area and in several other locations through the metro area. Chicago ans multiple suburbs that have large business districts that function independently of the downtown area.

I think that's a good point, but it's not like everyone in New York or LA commutes to the same central district. In fact, LA is about as diffuse as Houston. Yet traffic has become a nightmare, and housing prices are through the roof. Granted, Houston has more open space, but IMO that only delays the inevitable.

With respect to taxes, which others have brought up, I concede that for people toward the top of the income scale, especially over $100,000, taxes are higher than they are in Arizona. This is not because California taxes the wealthy more than the rest of the population. Rather, it's because in places like Arizona, Texas, and Florida, the wealthy aren't asked to pay that much, and as a consequence pay a much lower share as a percentage of income. Those states collect more in sales taxes than California, even though their median income is lower. Map: State and Local General Sales Tax Collections Per Capita | Tax Foundation

If you are middle class (~$60,000-$70,000 per household), California is probably better for you than Arizona on the tax front, and about even with Texas.

[PCALMike]

Obviously because pay is much better in CA than AZ in general. Just look at what nurses, teachers etc earn in CA compared to AZ.

Why is Mexico cheaper than AZ?

[Passenheim]

The simple fact of the matter is that you pay for fantastic beauty and nice weather and the ocean. I'm originally from Chicago, in the University of Chicago Area. I moved to San Diego and will never go back to Chicago. I have tropical fruit trees all around the house in San Diego that are bountiful (40 Banana Trees, 2 Mexican Guava, 3 Asian Guava, 3 Tropical Fig trees, 10 Papaya trees, 7 Mexican Zapote trees, 3 Avocado trees, 1 Asian Zapote tree that has the most beautiful and tasty fruit and 7 citrus trees) I also have an Apricot and a Nectarine tree. The Apricot no longer produces fruit and the nectarine only produces a little because San Diego went from semi tropical status to tropical with the climate change.

The Fruit trees almost pay for the house and I feel that I live in Paradise. My sister lives in Arizona and when I have been there (especially late spring to early fall) I feel like I am in a blast furnace. I have given up going to visit her during those months.

[motormaker]

Originally Posted by Packard fan

Agreed and HOW!

I live in Bullhead City across from Laughlin, Nev. which is about 25 miles from Needles, Ca. Needles is basically dying cause of its state's insane laws and regulations which are pushing many people AND businesses to move just across the river in Mohave Valley and Ft Mohave, Az which are between me and Bullhead.

But Packard, just last year you said:

"Needles: it seems to have hit bottom and is starting to get a bit better.

Bullhead City: now THAT city IMHO is def dying with its about 25 percent or higher commercial vacancy rate on Hwy 95, Hancock and Marina are almost ghost towns in 2015."

And according to CD stats the population has grown.

[Cyber Surfer]

Cali sounds like paradise, but I've learned more and more that it's not all it's cracked up to be. The state has serious issues regarding water, cost of living, homeless, crime, etc. Sure if you make enough you can survive, but what is to happen if you lose your job and can't find another in time?

People talk about Arizona having opportunity for jobs, so what's stopping companies from setting up shop then? Surely Arizona might have some screwy state regulations in place that prevents it from happening. Mohave County alone I don't see much in offering real jobs unless you work in the medical field and even then pay is garbage (save for doctors and admins) comapred to other more developed counties. Most growth, if you want to call it that come from the occasional fast food/retail chain or hospital expansions. Sure, good opportunities for the younger crowd to help pay for school or kids (many have em young here), but not many people want to work those kind of jobs in their late 20s early 30s. Where are the career opportunities for college educated? Why do job fairs revolve around minimum wage positions instead of real businesses looking for sharp minds?

It's no wonder people want to flock to California, honestly if Arizona has such opportunity they're squandering it.

[Packard fan]

Originally Posted by motormaker

But Packard, just last year you said:

"Needles: it seems to have hit bottom and is starting to get a bit better.

Bullhead City: now THAT city IMHO is def dying with its about 25 percent or higher commercial vacancy rate on Hwy 95, Hancock and Marina are almost ghost towns in 2015."

And according to CD stats the population has grown.

That was 2015, this is 2016. Things change.

I truly thought Needles was gonna get better.

Bullhead: our comm vacancy rate is STILL very high just looking at all the empty storefronts on Hwy 95, as well as Hancock and Marina.

OTOH: Ft Mohave IS holding its own.

[jgustav]

Originally Posted by Quirinius324

With respect to taxes, which others have brought up, I concede that for people toward the top of the income scale, especially over $100,000, taxes are higher than they are in Arizona. This is not because California taxes the wealthy more than the rest of the population. Rather, it's because in places like Arizona, Texas, and Florida, the wealthy aren't asked to pay that much, and as a consequence pay a much lower share as a percentage of income. Those states collect more in sales taxes than California, even though their median income is lower. Map: State and Local General Sales Tax Collections Per Capita | Tax Foundation

If you are middle class (~$60,000-$70,000 per household), California is probably better for you than Arizona on the tax front, and about even with Texas.

In trying to compare Arizona and California taxes on a household, it would be better to include gas tax as well, which isn't even close given that CA has the highest gas tax in the country. Sales tax is difficult to determine in AZ since the state sales tax is only 5.6% but allows additional local sales tax of up to 5.3% in some areas. You have to look at how much you pay in AZ by looking at the local city and county taxes.

Arizona also has a capital gain exclusion which is not available in CA, all income is taxed at the same marginal rate for the taxable income bracket you are in. This does benefit people toward the top of the income scale who are more likely to have stocks, mutual funds and business transactions that may trigger capital gains.

California does tax their wealthy residents more than the rest of the population through higher marginal rates, it is part of the redistribution of wealth mentality that is present in deep blue states. CA may possibly have some advantages in taxation versus some other left leaning states like NY or NJ that have some of the highest property taxes in the country, but I can't see a case for it offering a better tax environment that AZ. The only exception to this could be for some family that it is at the very lowest income level reaching the new CA earned income tax credit which is refundable.

[jmac1]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

Obviously because pay is much better in CA than AZ in general. Just look at what nurses, teachers etc earn in CA compared to AZ.

Why is Mexico cheaper than AZ?

Nope! (when talking nurses and teachers) Compare Phoenix Union teachers pay with LAUSD pay AND LA County nurses' pay with Maricopa County nurses' pay.

Teacher pay is even between the two districts and LA nurses make about 11k more per year. When you factor in Cost of Living (primarily house) it isn't even close.

On average though, California is a much better paying state.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Cyber Surfer

People talk about Arizona having opportunity for jobs, so what's stopping companies from setting up shop then?

Primarily, our school system. No one wants to move a company to a state full of illiterate morons. My advice would be to stay away completely.