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I'm not comparing Chinese education system to Arizona what I said was we need to do the same here in the US turn out higher percentage of collage graduates. Education is the only way for the future of this country.
Other political Red states have much better education with low tax it's not about tax it's where the money goes.
It is not about turning out college grads...it is about turning out college grads with usable areas of study. Edu-Crats have been pounding the "You have to go to college" drum for years and have subsequently raised the cost of tuition, books, pretty much everything surrounding post-secondary education but didn't care what major the student took. On top of that I know quite a few college grads that are dumber than a box of rocks...but you know...they have a degree.
Conversely, we now have a shortage of "doers", i.e. Electricians, Plumbers, Machinists, Welders...pretty much any trade you look at has a shortage of skilled workers. The people who actually create and keep things running vs. some English major that those trades-peoples' taxes now support since they can't get a job and then whine about not having a VP position open to them.
I am not saying college is bad...Engineering, Computer Science, Medical and Legal professions demand it. If you are getting a degree in "the Arts"...you may want to re-examine your life choices.
It is not about turning out college grads...it is about turning out college grads with usable areas of study. Edu-Crats have been pounding the "You have to go to college" drum for years and have subsequently raised the cost of tuition, books, pretty much everything surrounding post-secondary education but didn't care what major the student took. On top of that I know quite a few college grads that are dumber than a box of rocks...but you know...they have a degree.
Conversely, we now have a shortage of "doers", i.e. Electricians, Plumbers, Machinists, Welders...pretty much any trade you look at has a shortage of skilled workers. The people who actually create and keep things running vs. some English major that those trades-peoples' taxes now support since they can't get a job and then whine about not having a VP position open to them.
I am not saying college is bad...Engineering, Computer Science, Medical and Legal professions demand it. If you are getting a degree in "the Arts"...you may want to re-examine your life choices.
You hit it out of the park...
Any young person now a days, who isn't committed and focused on the degrees you mentioned,(engineering, computer science, medical and legal) should STRONGLY consider the skilled trades; every plumber, electrician, welder,carpernter I know has and is making a very good living, and this delusion that so many adults ram down their children throats about "needing" to have a college degree or risk failure is an out and out lie; I too know many morons with college degrees that can't walk and chew gum at the same time, and I also know many VERY successful and WEALTHY adults who never got a degree..
My son fought us for years, insisting on getting his Art degree and he was certain that he would make a great living by getting it... He now works at Dillards, so there you go..
Both my wife and I got our majors in English, and neither of us had careers that utilized that, and we both made a ton of money in our lifetime...
college has just become another way that large corporations get richer every day; along with the medical/health/insurance industries, these fields are 2 of the worst examples of what America has become, as far as emptying the pockets of our population without any regard for the people they are supposed to serve..
Both my wife and I got our majors in English, and neither of us had careers that utilized that, and we both made a ton of money in our lifetime...
Sorry, wasn't trying to point out specific degrees and I am sure you attended school before it became astronomically expensive. Most college grads I know aren't using said degrees with some exceptions. Those exceptions, the ones using their degrees, are specifically in a Science. Bio, Information, Medical, etc. There is something to having the degree...many upper level management jobs require it...but so many would be so much better off if they found a trade they enjoyed and pursue that "interest" as a hobby until it becomes a source of livelihood. I have a buddy that got into welding and now makes some pretty cool metal art.
Not saying it has to be a manual labor trade...but it requires work rather than relying on a degree. There will still be training involved, long hours working to build experience and increase your skills and income. Google and Amazon recently suspended their requirements for degrees for new hires, testing their coding ability (arguably an Information Economy trade) rather than looking at what school they graduated from.
Anyway...this is all kind of off-topic of Teacher Pay but when discussing the black hole of the educational system in the US, not just AZ, you can't just keep dumping money into a system that isn't optimized to do the thing that is is supposed to do, mainly educate students. Streamline the Administrative Overhead, put the money into the classrooms rather than pet projects and pay the teachers accordingly. If we could do that, and improve the quality of education to the point where kids are graduating High School fully competent to enter the work force...Universities could focus on the higher level programs and classes to still produce a well-rounded education (Sciences as well as Arts) but with a purpose. Maybe the Arts programs don't need to be full time programs. More like...if you are interested in this area of study, here are some online classes that may pique your interest. MIT has all their course curriculum online and free. You won't get a degree by taking the class but you can still educate yourself.
Sorry, wasn't trying to point out specific degrees and I am sure you attended school before it became astronomically expensive..
Understood,no offense taken, my only point was its not unusual to get a degree in one field and end up having a career in another..
and yes, my degree at the university of Illinois cost me less than 10,000 back in the day, that I paid for MYSELF by working while going to school...
I think that a lot of kids now a days are just "professional students"; that is, they go to school to make their parents happy, and it helps them delay their entry into the "real" world; that should never be the outcome of 4 years of your life and a 100K+ investment.
Intelligence can be harvested in so many other ways, besides spending 4+ years of your life in college; plus, you aren't saddled with that mind numbing debt that follows most kids graduating now a days..
Understood,no offense taken, my only point was its not unusual to get a degree in one field and end up having a career in another..
and yes, my degree at the university of Illinois cost me less than 10,000 back in the day, that I paid for MYSELF by working while going to school...
I think that a lot of kids now a days are just "professional students"; that is, they go to school to make their parents happy, and it helps them delay their entry into the "real" world; that should never be the outcome of 4 years of your life and a 100K+ investment.
Intelligence can be harvested in so many other ways, besides spending 4+ years of your life in college; plus, you aren't saddled with that mind numbing debt that follows most kids graduating now a days..
Agreed...luckily I had the GI Bill to pay for most of mine. So thank you taxpayers (At this point I have more than made up for the tuition provided in my taxes so...)
What a lot of these new grads don't understand is that University is NOT the end of your education. Like you said, there are many other avenues to an education. Like everyone else...if you aren't learning new things you are falling behind.
What a lot of these new grads don't understand is that University is NOT the end of your education. Like you said, there are many other avenues to an education. Like everyone else...if you aren't learning new things you are falling behind.
This is absolutely correct in so many ways. I have a college degree, and so do many others, but all that really means is that a person met the curriculum requirements and passed the courses. In the workforce (and life in general), a college degree doesn't really matter all that much. I've been with the same company for 26 years, and learned more on the job than I could ever hope to learn in college. When I was new to the firm in 1993, I knew little or nothing about banking, investments, computer technology, or management. I learned all these things through working & experience. When I hear a younger person bragging about graduating from college, my thoughts are: "OK, big deal. Good luck paying off those student loans!"
This is absolutely correct in so many ways. I have a college degree, and so do many others, but all that really means is that a person met the curriculum requirements and passed the courses. In the workforce (and life in general), a college degree doesn't really matter all that much. I've been with the same company for 26 years, and learned more on the job than I could ever hope to learn in college. When I was new to the firm in 1993, I knew little or nothing about banking, investments, computer technology, or management. I learned all these things through working & experience. When I hear a younger person bragging about graduating from college, my thoughts are: "OK, big deal. Good luck paying off those student loans!"
And yet everyone wants degrees in job postings, despite that everyone knows hardly anything you learn in school transfers to the workplace, except in some edge cases. "Do you have this degree that we require that you won't use any knowledge of in your work here?" Yeah sure.
We grew up in the 80s and 90s being told to go to college to get a secure, well paying job. But the last 20 years that's been a scam. You go to college just to end up working retail for 5 years until you actually find a place that will hire you with little to no experience (home / side experience of course doesn't count). Or you "know someone" somewhere. I'm not so sure I'll be pressing my kids so hard to go to college (they're all 5 and under right now). It's going to be a careful consideration of what they seen to be into that they can make a career from, and will college further that goal in a meaningful way?
The crash permanently changed companies hiring practices. And not for the better. Which is to say nothing of how bad they were to begin with.
I'm not so sure I'll be pressing my kids so hard to go to college (they're all 5 and under right now). It's going to be a careful consideration of what they seen to be into that they can make a career from, and will college further that goal in a meaningful way?.
You will take some flak for not towing the "College College College" line...we have. Other parents look at you like you have 3 heads when you say you are not pushing them towards college.
The oldest is into multimedia and film...he will be going to EVIT next year and should have a marketable portfolio by the time he graduates. We have contacts in the film industry (it is all who you know) so College is just an option at that point...not a requirement.
The daughter...whole other discussion...amazing student, really into writing. Does she need to go to college to become a writer? Yes and No...depends on how she pursues her studies once she gets to High School. We are hoping she gets published before she graduates and then she can make the choice on her own.
You will take some flak for not towing the "College College College" line...we have. Other parents look at you like you have 3 heads when you say you are not pushing them towards college.
Yup, I expect that to happen, but they can flak all they want - it's not them that's going to be either $xx,xxx+ in debt or $xx,xxx+ lighter in savings, for no practical reason. I and many of my friends / classmates / coworkers have learned the hard way that you don't go to college to get a "free" ticket to a high paying job anymore these days. Probably not for several decades now. Nowadays it has to make sense relative to what one wants to do. If someone wants to shoot flak, well, i've got a flak jacket on. Not going to burn that kind of money for literally no good reason other than "it's the thing to do".
My brother didn't go to college. He seems to have gone to a trade school or something and now does very well for himself as an electrician. And he sure as hell is not $50,000 in debt with nothing to show for it other than flipping burgers.
Why do you think any of the below items are meaningful to determine how good a school system is? This is half
of their ranking metrics and will have absolutely zero change with higher teacher pay.
The only thing that matters is graduation rates (kinda), and math/reading test scores. Teachers can't control safety and not everyone needs to or should take ACT/SAT but this website values those tests very, very highly.
- Presence of Public Schools in “Top 700 Best U.S. Schools” (don't make our list we will punish you even further. Who even decided 700 was the right cutoff)
- Blue Ribbon Schools per Capita
- High School Graduation Rate Among Low-Income Students (why should this matter? Low income students drop out due to necessity)
- Projected High School Graduation Rate Increase Between 2018-2019 and 2031-2032 School Years (some "scientific" estimates)
- Median SAT Score (not the average?)
- Median ACT Score (not the average?)
- Share of High School Graduates Who Completed ACT and/or SAT (ask all the bachelor degree baristas how important these two tests are)
- Division of SAT Results by Percentile
- Division of ACT Results by Percentile
- Share of Threatened/Injured High School Students (this is an impossible metric to obtain)
- Share of High School Students Not Attending School Due to Safety Concerns (feelings don't matter)
- Share of Families Who Agree Their Children Go to Safe Schools (feelings don't matter)
- Share of High School Students with Access to Illegal Drugs (this is at 100% for every school in the country)
- Share of High School Students Participating in Violence (this is an impossible metric to obtain)
- Share of Armed High School Students (this is an impossible metric to obtain)
- Number of School Shootings (2000-present (May 10, 2019))
- Presence of Adopted and Enacted Laws Regulating Mandatory School Resource Officers (not actually having an officer but having a requirement to have an officer)
- Bullying Incidence Rate
- Disciplinary Incidence Rate
- Youth Incarceration Rate
- School Safety Plan Requirement (not actually having a plan but having a plan requirement)
- School Safety Audit Requirement (not actually having an audit but an audit requirement)
- Safety Grade of Roads Around School (you are joking right?)
Looks sound to you because it tells the story you want to hear.
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(At this point I have more than made up for the tuition provided in my taxes so...)
