Why is teacher pay so low in AZ? (school districts, income)

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by llowllevellowll

While I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment that parents are the overwhelming educators and when a child fails, it's particularly the fault of the parent(s), there's a cycle that needs to be overcome and broken in order to mitigate the future failure cycle. For instance, a child in school today who isn't being educated at home and isn't receiving a quality education at school will probably grow up to raise a child who isn't being educated at home and isn't receiving a quality education at school. In the U.S., we don't seem to view education as an investment into our future communities and our country. If we did, we wouldn't be content with the knowledge that inner-city schools are woefully underfunded compared to suburban community schools. For our own children, though, many of us are happy to see that investment in the form of $10,000 - $20,000 per year tuition rates at private institutions, but yeah, we can't imagine a tax hike for public schools in our community for fear of it being wasted on "administrative costs".

We are our own worst enemies when it comes to investing.

People know education is important. They also know the current system is not about education it's about so many other things. It's a jobs program. It's a social services system. It's social engineering. It's minor league sports. The list is long and varies from town to town, state to state. One thing is for sure though, costs have gone up and performance has gone down. I wonder why?
I do like the idea that parents need an education.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Public schools are a losing proposition when taking into account investment vs quality. Private schools smack Public schools in terms of outcomes and do it for cheaper.

And why might that be? Did it occur to you that private schools can pick which students they accept? They can limit their student body to the best and brightest if they choose to. They have no obligation to teach disabled kids, blind or deaf kids or slow learners. Duh

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

I didn't bring up California, someone else did. Your reading comprehension isn't excellent, obviously.

If you want to talk CA and how well all their money spent is doing them then fine. Why do they test lower than AZ? Can you honestly say the money is well spent when, per dollar spent, we get DRASTICALLY better results?

We spend $8k per pupil, nearly the lowest in the country. Just looking at 8th grade math scores we beat the national average. California spends about 50% more per pupil at around $12k and for the extra money they get lower test scores in every category. If you look at those 8th grade math scores AZ averaged a 282, that's $28 per point; CA averaged 277 or $43 per point. They spend more a d get worse results, no question.

The only meaningful metric CA has AZ beat on is graduation rate and even that is easily explainable and more money spent on educators won't fix the issue. AZ has a higher poverty rate and poor children are much more likely to drop out of school out of necessity. Likewise, CA has more wealth, and the wealthy are much more likely to graduate high school.

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/pr...MN&year=2017R3

http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ates-by-state/

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...erty-rate.html

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/C...GRe34tvl2sgmhO - page 19 I think it was

Another page on worldpopulation review has stats that show California schools rated considerably higher than Arizona

http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...for-education/

This site lists California as being #21 for education and Arizona is ranked #40 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education

And this one lists California as #38 overall and Arizona as #49 https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-w...-schools/5335/

I've noticed this before, these school rating sites are all over the place, I don't put much faith in any of them, but my guess is that Arizona could attract better teachers and perhaps improve education in the State if they paid teachers more.

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Another page on worldpopulation review has stats that show California schools rated considerably higher than Arizona

http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...for-education/

This site lists California as being #21 for education and Arizona is ranked #40 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education

And this one lists California as #38 overall and Arizona as #49 https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-w...-schools/5335/

I've noticed this before, these school rating sites are all over the place, I don't put much faith in any of them, but my guess is that Arizona could attract better teachers and perhaps improve education in the State if they paid teachers more.

Those lists are trash, see post 110 I broke down the crap in the wallethub list.

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by RJ312

If I were in college today, there's no way that I'd consider being a K-12 school teacher.

United States residents are having fewer kids now. The population is aging. 55+ individuals will comprise a larger percentage of the population in the coming decades.

Anything working with senior citizens will have higher demand. When a person is in college, they are preparing for ~40 years in the workplace. The 40 year outlook on K-12 teaching is poor. Especially in a place like Arizona, which draws in a ton of 55+ people.

I think part of the reason that educational outcomes are getting so bad is that potential future teachers realize that the longevity of the profession isn't all that good. This won't draw the best to the occupation.

Summers off is one of the draws of being a K-12 teacher.

Our neighbor is an invalid. Her family employ a home health care aide to watch over her, bathe her, do the cooking, etc. +no house cleaning--a housekeeper comes in to do that. She's live-in so she gets her own room and bath. She's 24/6. On Sundays another aide comes in to give her one day off per week. Her salary is $10/hr for a 24 hour shift. That's $240/day or $1440/week or $5760/mo. An aide is working what.....4 hours out of the day? So essentially she is getting paid $80 each night just to sleep but be on call in case the elderly lady has a problem during the night.



What is more attractive to a 30-ish-50-ish woman teacher in Arizona: 50 hours a week screaming at a bunch of unruly undisciplined teens to shut up for 45K/year--or a quiet home environment looking after an invalid woman for a few hours a day and having the rest of the day to watch TV and just generally relax for 70K/year. Factor in the exploding demand for aides to a growing elderly population and these Arizona teachers might well consider pitching their teacher's certificate into the trash can and go into home health care.

[Jdawg8181]

Conversely take a look @ what teachers on Long Island NY get paid …

[LJS1993]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

And why might that be? Did it occur to you that private schools can pick which students they accept? They can limit their student body to the best and brightest if they choose to. They have no obligation to teach disabled kids, blind or deaf kids or slow learners. Duh

Well stated!! It seriously surprises me how some people fail to realize this reality. Public schools must serve everyone and anyone that comes through those gates. That includes students with probation officers and disabilities that will keep them at one site until at least twenty years of age.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by LJS1993

Well stated!! It seriously surprises me how some people fail to realize this reality. Public schools must serve everyone and anyone that comes through those gates. That includes students with probation officers and disabilities that will keep them at one site until at least twenty years of age.

Exactly, and public schools also have to provide educational services to hospitalized children. I wonder what private school tuition would be if they were required to do that, or provide any of the specialized services required of public schools?

https://www.ucsfbenioffchildrens.org...ram/index.html

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Those lists are trash, see post 110 I broke down the crap in the wallethub list.

oh...I get it now, your sources are great mine are garbage?

[wase4711]

here's what teachers making an average of almost 100k per year do...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsAWXWdcw9A''