[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Sneezyone

Did I say it was only black youth who leave? I believe I said minorities. They don't all leave after college either, as NPP said, DH and I both left after high school. I appreciate what's been said about self-fulfilling prophesies but , as I said, no one hopes that their children will be pigeonholed or subtly ostracised b/c of who they are and what they look like.

I'm not sure how anecdotal evidence about three black republican families in New Mexico is related to black folks in Arkansas who repeatedly hear some version of love it or leave it. NM and AR have two completely different historical legacies where black folks are concerned. Still, even New Mexico is progressing socially and economically in ways that Arkansas is not.

It is clear to me, based on the responses here, that there are still far too many people who are unwilling and/or unable to take a critical look at the state's atmospherics, acknowledge the seriousness of the problem, and work to change it.

What specifically is the problem? I don't even know what atmospherics means. This isn't just "the grass is greener syndrome"? Meaning if you were born in Michigan, you would be gettin out of Michigan?

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08

Of course if you're white, Latino, Asian, biracial, multiracial, etc you're certainly welcome.

What do you think of this: Ark. blacks can't break state, Congress barrier - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081111/ap_on_el_ge/arkansas_election_race;_ylt=AvPqk1EscbQsREQUhwtD8q us0NUE - broken link)

Well, have you checked lost and found? Or stapled flyers on telephone poles? Maybe somebody's turned them in.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Sneezyone

Did I say it was only black youth who leave? I believe I said minorities. They don't all leave after college either, as NPP said, DH and I both left after high school. I appreciate what's been said about self-fulfilling prophesies but , as I said, no one hopes that their children will be pigeonholed or subtly ostracised b/c of who they are and what they look like.

I'm not sure how anecdotal evidence about three black republican families in New Mexico is related to black folks in Arkansas who repeatedly hear some version of love it or leave it. NM and AR have two completely different historical legacies where black folks are concerned. Still, even New Mexico is progressing socially and economically in ways that Arkansas is not.

It is clear to me, based on the responses here, that there are still far too many people who are unwilling and/or unable to take a critical look at the state's atmospherics, acknowledge the seriousness of the problem, and work to change it.

Is that because we do not agree with you? Could you explain your comment about NM being progressing? If you didn't live there you have no idea how totally wrong you are. NM fights any change more than any state we have visited or lived in. BTW, you are relatively new to the board so are not familiar with 2 gals who are in love with AR. Both from Ca, one has already moved to AR, the other will be joining us next year, both are educated and guess what? They both happen to be black...

Nita

[Sneezyone]

Originally Posted by bluenoter

What specifically is the problem? I don't even know what atmospherics means. This isn't just "the grass is greener syndrome"? Meaning if you were born in Michigan, you would be gettin out of Michigan?

atmospherics: mood or atmosphere; ambience: The atmospherics of the conference were cordial.

Let's see, do you see the same out migration in Michigan, yes. Which is why I cited OH and PA as other examples of this same dying state phenomenon, just different reasons. There, it's primarily economic stagnation that's causing the youth to leave.

As for people outside of arkansas moving there, again, I'm not talking about what people born/raised elsewhere are doing. I'm talking about what the state's OWN young, talented minorities are doing. The few people moving in are not enough to offset the drain of young talent that's occurring right now.

Perhaps your opinions of New Mexico are informed more by the people you associated with rather than statistics? There are large numbers of young voters in the Land of Enchantment. Same-sex households also rank fairly high, as do Catholics. Surely, you're not telling me those are the hallmarks of a dying, non-progressive state?

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Sneezyone

atmospherics: mood or atmosphere; ambience: The atmospherics of the conference were cordial.

Let's see, do you see the same out migration in Michigan, yes. Which is why I cited OH and PA as other examples of this same dying state phenomenon, just different reasons. There, it's primarily economic stagnation that's causing the youth to leave.

As for people outside of arkansas moving there, again, I'm not talking about what people born/raised elsewhere are doing. I'm talking about what the state's OWN young, talented minorities are doing. The few people moving in are not enough to offset the drain of young talent that's occurring right now.

Perhaps your opinions of New Mexico are informed more by the people you associated with rather than statistics? There are large numbers of young voters in the Land of Enchantment. Same-sex households also rank fairly high, as do Catholics. Surely, you're not telling me those are the hallmarks of a dying, non-progressive state?

You know I think we are getting off the subject and our moderator will soon close this thread...I will say one more thing and then drop it: You know little about NM, I was very involved in the community, know the state (with the exception of Sante Fe) backwards and forwards, there are same sex households, just like we have in AR, but they are not common place like Ca, they do have young voteres, but I can guarantee you the majority of young people no not vote, the poverty level is very high, the drop out rate unbelievable, etc, etc. For those of us who have been around a while and I certainly have, you can do anything you want with statistics.

Nita

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by Sneezyone

And bluesy, we will enjoy the coasts, thanks...mMy family and the other national merit finalists I graduated with who fled the state right along with me. We hear Sigonella is lovely.

Not all of 'em.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by Sneezyone

If you (the society as a whole) foster an environment that makes it clear to young people of all ethnicities, throughout their grade school years, that tolerance is a vice and closed-mindedness a virtue then it's your fault. There's a serious brain drain in most of Arkansas and acknowledging that fact brings you one step closer to finding a solution. No one's going to stick around post graduation in the hope of people changing the society as a whole. Better to not waste your time and instead find a culture and climate that's already receptive.

I really don't think that there is an attitude that tolerance is a vice. There is a conservatism that runs through the state, an attitude toward change that is cautious and even suspicious at times. But condemning that conservatism outright is an example of intolerance as well.

Some of us do stick around post graduation, some of us find it more rewarding to live in the less "receptive" culture where we are challenged each day rather than live in a like-minded world that in the end encourages disparagement rather than tolerance to people who think differently.

There may be a brain-drain in parts of Arkansas. It's a rural state with limited opportunities. Even as NWA and Little Rock thrive, other parts of the state have not grown as much and lag on all sorts of fronts. But there is always a trade-off. Progress has costs as well as benefits. Leaping on the opportunities for progress may make sense, but cautiously weighing the costs against the benefits makes sense, too. I appreciate that many of the people who live here in Arkansas actually feel enriched by that "backward" way of life, they see the value of having roots in the land, not only in selling it to the top bidder, they see the value of learning from the past, not just in discarding it as distasteful and "backward". They may "settle" for what they have rather than mortgaging their futures to enjoy what the rest of the country has, because what they have is something valuable, something to aspire to.

There is racism everywhere. The coasts aren't immune, and neither is Europe. There might have been flyers from churches maligning Obama, and people point that out as proof that people of Arkansas are more racist. They aren't. Some people are more in your face about it. But in a political contest, it was up to Obama and the Democratic party to refute those rumors, those slanders, and that didn't happen. Obama never stopped in Arkansas. His 50-state campaign didn't make it to all the states, he didn't place ads in the media, he didn't send out flyers, no phone calls. Do you blame the citizens of Arkansas for hearing only the Republican claims, when the Democratic voice was silent? They can't hear what's not being spoken.

Arkansas isn't Eden. It's not a Paradise. It has plenty of problems. But I don't think that one of those problems is the outspokenness of the conservative voices in Arkansas. It's that the liberal voices are so subdued. Liberals do exist here. Act 1 didn't win by a landslide, and Obama had a strong showing if you consider he didn't campaign here at all. But if you are a liberal and all you care about is leaving the state, the fact is it's not politics that are motivating you. If you truly cared about politics, about equality for people without reference to their race or sexual persuasion, you'd stay and be a voice for those people. There's nothing wrong with wanting different things from life than Arkansas offers. Just like there's nothing wrong with wanting different things from life than California offers. But tolerance isn't about bashing the people who stay because they do enjoy what their home states offer. Tolerance is about understanding why people choose to stay, it's about crediting them not as stupid or "backward" but as people who place more value than you in certain things, and less value in others, but who contribute to the wholeness of our society because we aren't all politically correct, we aren't all the same, we are individuals who need to find ways to connect and work together. Disparaging people who don't agree with you politically says so much more about you and your attitudes toward dissidence than it does about the dissidents.

[Sam I Am]

DC, your last paragraph is positively poetic. Thank you. Being a voice...that's the ticket.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by Sam I Am

DC, your last paragraph is positively poetic. Thank you. Being a voice...that's the ticket.

Thank you, Sam, for the positive feedback. I'm no poet, but whenever people start bashing one another, I am reminded of Edward Markham's poem about drawing circles to shut people out. People spend so much time building walls, distinguishing between me and thee, drawing circles. Tolerance is always about drawing the bigger circle, the circle that's not about shutting people out, but about drawing people in.

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Sneezyone

Same-sex households also rank fairly high, as do Catholics. Surely, you're not telling me those are the hallmarks of a dying, non-progressive state?

Why is sexual stuff progressive. If I find Filipina girls hot, am I progressive? High numbers of Catholics tells me there's a lot of hispanics in NM, not progressiveness.