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what is wrong with that? do you think everyone can be a doctor or an astrophysicist? do you think everyone has to get a degree or work in a professional field?
No, but I think it's a great thing that everyone in the country has the chance to get a high school diploma. I'm not saying that someone who scores a 400 on the SATs should be shuffled into med school, but why is it a bad thing that we provide kids the opportunity to have 13 years of education? A LOT of kids (boys especially), don't come into their learning prime until middle school/high school when they can finally sit still and absorb information. Are we supposed to just weed out high energy kids in 4th grade if they aren't doing well at that point, instead of giving them a chance to catch up in a couple years?
Side note, this same test is being discussed in the education forum--it's quite interesting to see how educators are dissecting the information compared to the responders here. Very different.
I doubt if they faked it. I lived and taught English in Korea for many years.
Generally speaking, Koreans were absolutley obsessed with being 'better than Japan' for as long as you can imagine. They constantly strive to be #1, and absolutely obsessed about English and Education. Basically EVERY Junior High and High School will spend ALL of their available time after school attending MORE school in private institutues.
When I've visited China (been there 4 times), they remind me exactly of the Koreans. Just completely obsessed with nationally being the best, and education being the KEY.
Thinking back 20 years ago, when I use to work in my college library....I often worked Friday night...and I went to a very WHITE college...state school in the middle of Michigan. I didn't know we had any Asian students at my college. But weekends, particularly Friday night, our library was filled with seemingly EVERY Asian student, primarily Chinese, that attended our university. All the other kids, were partying their ass off on Friday night, and had no interest in opening a college textbook until SUnday night around 11pm or so.
In short, no real surprise here that Chinese would blow away other countries by large margins.
I think my position was that they probably didn't "fake it", as such, but that Shanghai is maybe not representative of all of China. I'm really skeptical rural Chinese kids would do better than even rural Mississippians. Or at least I'm not sure why they would as many rural Chinese areas are still undeveloped and I don't see how they'd have the time or reason to know much more than farming or manufacturing or community political/moral standards or the like.
... Whoopi Goldberg dropped out of high school and didn't go to college.
I have never heard her recommend this as the royal road to success. For every Whoopi Goldberg you can find a thousand, probably thousands, who did the same and are bottom-feeding their way through life.
The exceptions, be they Edison or Whoopi Goldberg, are just that: exceptions. Holding them up as the standard is the royal road down the drain, but then we seem to be demonstrating that with our society.
I see your point, but I shudder to think what may have been missed (or not here yet) had Thomas Edison's teachers felt that he had little potential at 4th grade, and dismissed any hope of potential in the future.
These are exceptions and even if they don't do well in academia, no one is stopped from inventing or learning in their own way on their own time. that's what people with natural interests will do regardless.
so a thomas edison can still learn as well as invent. there is more than one way to become educated and one is homeschooling or learning on your own. einstein was a drop-out but his own drive and interest motivated him to continue learning on his own. that doesn't mean everyone who is a drop-out does so for the same reasons or has the same potential.
furthermore, i was never a proponent of child labor but that not everyone wants to or needs to even attend high school or college. high school curriculum is really a preparation for college and that is all. there are also a lot of fluff courses. primary education is much more important such as reading, writing and arithmetic not history (memory and knowledge), chemistry, biology etc unless that is a field or interest you will enter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
I think my position was that they probably didn't "fake it", as such, but that Shanghai is maybe not representative of all of China. I'm really skeptical rural Chinese kids would do better than even rural Mississippians. Or at least I'm not sure why they would as many rural Chinese areas are still undeveloped and I don't see how they'd have the time or reason to know much more than farming or manufacturing or community political/moral standards or the like.
as i said, it's not equitable because even rural children get free primary and high school education, the poor chinese children in rural china usually have no access to education whether primary or high school.
it is actually MORE of an indictment of america because there is access to education, even to the poorest child.
as i said, it's not equitable because even rural children get free primary and high school education, the poor chinese children in rural china usually have no access to education whether primary or high school.
Hmm.. not really.
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Education in the People's Republic of China is a state-run system of public education run by the Ministry of Education. All citizens must attend school for at least nine years. The government provides primary education for six years, starting at age six or seven, followed by six years of secondary education for ages 12 to 18. Some provinces may have five years of primary school but four years for middle school. There are three years of middle school and three years of high school. The Ministry of Education reported a 99 percent attendance rate for primary school and an 80 percent rate for both primary and middle schools.
it is actually MORE of an indictment of america because there is access to education, even to the poorest child.
Come on, the American education system actually has absolutely nothing to do with "equal access to education". I remeber this words when I pay my college bill of thousands of $$$$. Good private High-Schools are expensive as well. Go to Scandinavia or so, then we can talk about equal access.
Honestly, I believe Chinese students are better than Americans. They have a kind of drill from their government that makes them learn. And they have the motivation to get out of their little town, to get a job in a larger City with much higher life-quality. I sometimes can't stop facepalming if I see what some American students know about the world or better don't know.
What I've noticed about these Indian/Chinese PhDs being churned out by the thousands is that they are outstandingly hard working and knowledgeable about their specific field but not that educated in the sense of having a wide knowledge of things that don't concern them personally. Some questions I've been asked while talking to them include "So how does America speak the same language as England?", "What is rugby?" (from somebody who'd been at Oxford University three years), and "Why are the leaves falling off the trees (in October) - are the trees dying?" Better motivated - yes, better trained for their jobs - maybe; but better educated in the broader sense - I would say no. A lot of them don't know as much about the history and culture of their own countries as would be expected of an educated person in Europe.
So how does America speak the same language as England?", "What is rugby?" (from somebody who'd been at Oxford University three years), and "Why are the leaves falling off the trees (in October) - are the trees dying?" Better motivated - yes, better trained for their jobs - maybe; but better educated in the broader sense - I would say no. A lot of them don't know as much about the history and culture of their own countries as would be expected of an educated person in Europe.
and what good or use is all that tidbit knowledge of that's not one's field of profession? not much.
as for those asking the questions, they can learn it on their own time if interested.
most people don't know how to fix their cars, know how the appliances in their homes work, know how to build a house, or know how to help themselves medically etc.
most people don't know anything of any substance or use unless it's related to their profession.
also, being a jack of all trades can mean a master of none.
most people don't know anything of any substance or use unless it's related to their profession.
If that's true for you or the people you know then I think that's sad. Society would be a much poorer and duller place if we were all one-dimensional robots with no interests in life outside our studies or jobs. I think this difference in mentality is why I can't see the Eastern countries dominating the world culturally in terms of fashion/music/literature/cinema the same way the West has done.
If that's true for you or the people you know then I think that's sad. Society would be a much poorer and duller place if we were all one-dimensional robots with no interests in life outside our studies or jobs. I think this difference in mentality is why I can't see the Eastern countries dominating the world culturally in terms of fashion/music/literature/cinema the same way the West has done.
and your post is totally unrealistic. one's hobbies are one thing, one's profession is another.
also, you totally glossed over the examples i posted and that's just some of them.
not everyone is a fashion designer or sews their own clothes or even knows how to, is a musician, or a writer or an actor or know about the film industry. i would guess that most people know jack squat about these and much more unless they are in particularly working in those professions.
you TOTALLY misunderstand that society is full of different people in different professions for a reason. again, it's important to be proficient at what you do rather than just have minimal knowledge of varying random subjects. that is more for personal interest but not necessarily of any concrete value unless it's very indepth.
i would wager the average person does not know how to fix their car, fix their television, understand the biology of the plants and animals in their yard, know how to grow their own food, fix their plumbing etc and need to call someone in one of those professions in order if something goes wrong. i would wager also that most people wouldn't know how to survive in the wild either.
now, are these people one-dimensional morons because they have no knowledge of these things? lol
No, but I think it's a great thing that everyone in the country has the chance to get a high school diploma.
Yes, it is great that everyone in the country get the chance. But what does having a high school diploma mean today?
We all know that merely sitting in classrooms for x hours doesn’t make one educated.
Most of high school graduates score below average on college placement tests and are forced to take college prep courses to make up for what they lack academically because they were subjected to watered down curriculum to increase grad rates.
Another reason for the watered down curriculum is that schools spend large portions of time trying to prepare students to take state-mandated standardized tests (known as teaching to the test). While this helps the school, it does little for the student.
Sadly, these students, in most cases, are not even aware of how the system works. When they are assigned to lets say, English prep classes at a community or junior college, they don’t comprehend that fact that these classes will not count as credit toward earning a degree. They only know that they are in college.
If high school graduation requirements are below minimum college entrance requirements, isn't giving a diploma to a student who can't enter college without taking (and paying for) remedial courses considered educational failure?
Right now from an academical point high school diploma means not much, prepares to nothing and in many cases means that students can barely read and write; everything else needs remedial courses in order to meet a minimum knowledge required to enter higher education.
Therefore is hard to compare American high school diploma with other countries high school diploma and education level.
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