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My friend was so disappointed in our educational system b/c he heard we had the top educational system in terms of universities.
Yea and that is why the top US universities are populated with at least 30-50% foreign-born or foreign-educated students especially at the graduate level. Sad.
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Originally Posted by kattwoman2
There are pros and cons with the Asian systems as well though. For example, my friend from Hong Kong was assigned homework during all breaks. So, instead of having a small break from school, she would end up spending the break doing more homework. Also, if she missed one point on her homework, her parents would scream "YOU ARE A MORON! YOU ARE THE MOST USELESS, PATHETIC CHILD WE KNOW!" I have another friend from Fuzhou and another friend whose parents are Hong Kong who told me their parents did the same thing as well. My response was, "Wow, people in the U.S. reward kids for making good grades. They don't punish them for not being perfect."
That is pretty stereotypical though. I don't know of anyone whose parents did that to them. My parents didn't do that to me though they were pretty insufferable on most other levels (like not letting me hang out with friends, forcing me to practice violin and piano, blah blah). I did it to myself and berated myself every time I did not get a good grade. It's a standard in Asia that you should strive for perfection and this is instilled into the students. It's better than the American alternative, which is being lazy and unmotivated, while believing that you are smarter/cooler than everyone else. In 8th grade I took a community college chemistry course and despite feeling like I failed because I was so unsure of many of the answers on the final, I got an A+. It was on a curve. I couldn't believe it. People must have really blown off the task of learning bigtime if they could not do better than a 13 year old.
My parents didn't do that to me though they were pretty insufferable on most other levels (like not letting me hang out with friends, forcing me to practice violin and piano, blah blah)
that is so true.
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In 8th grade I took a community college chemistry course and despite feeling like I failed because I was so unsure of many of the answers on the final, I got an A+. It was on a curve. I couldn't believe it. People must have really blown off the task of learning bigtime if they could not do better than a 13 year old.
which means in "reality", you still did very poorly and they did much worse.
Another reason for American colleges to be "easy-going" sometimes is the service-oriented aspect. The dean of our university asked the teachers not to let so many students fail, to make the courses and exams easier. Well, this may lead to a higher number of students and to higher tuition fee income, but not to a better quality of education.
I agree. I ended up going to a private college which mostly accepted kids who were very intelligent but low-income (there were a few exceptions of course) and it was both work-intensive and study-intensive. However, I have a relative who went to a community college and near the end of the semester her professor said, "For every can of food you bring in for donation, I will add a point to your final grade." She pulled off a C because she brought in 15 cans of food. My response was, "That's so unfair! In theory, you could have brought in 100 cans of food and gotten a 4.0 GPA."
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Originally Posted by elnina
In Europe every school, regardless if it is is a small village, big city, "bad" area or influent area - the primary and secondary education level is the same. Students that pass from a class to the next know the same stuff. In America parents are searching which school is good or best and which school to avoid. This is a completely foreign concept in Europe and probably in Asian countries.
The standardized tests here are different in each state. I believe they did a study a few years back and realized that the majority of kids in Mississippi would fail the standardized tests that were given to kids in Massachusetts. I think we may have some general things that are similar, but for the most part I think it's left up to each individual district or state.
there are some negatives of asian education systems but they are not that many but the ones that are, are bad and serious.
they put too much pressure and can be too focused on rote learning too. the competition is also fierce too and they also stupidly place too much emphasis on credentials rather than substance. i think asian education systems could benefit from some more creative learning styles or more relaxed ones to accomodate different learning styles or different types of children.
What's amazing about the outcome is that asians and cold weather countries were at the top. What surprised me is that Israel is number 37th. I thought they would be higher or even number one.
and what good or use is all that tidbit knowledge of that's not one's field of profession? not much.
as for those asking the questions, they can learn it on their own time if interested.
most people don't know how to fix their cars, know how the appliances in their homes work, know how to build a house, or know how to help themselves medically etc.
most people don't know anything of any substance or use unless it's related to their profession.
also, being a jack of all trades can mean a master of none.
I think you would be surprised how many people do things for themselves - particularly if they have no choice.
To say that "most people don't know anything of any substance or use unless it's related to their profession" is almost laughable in my rural area.
It goes to show that anyone who "brilliantly outscores" anyone else doesn't necessarily mean that they are any smarter than anyone else IMO.
I was an above average student in Asia. Probably wouldn't have gotten into a top college there.
Here in the US I'm like the top 0.1% and am on track to a job that makes 420k/yr average. Why is that? Because the US K-12 education system sucks! There's just no getting around that fact.
I was top 0.1% here and so is my oldest kid. The education system here doesn't suck based upon "averages" but rather...varies WILDLY where you go around the country.
In Illinois they have the IMSA magnet school just to name one...that brings in kids from small schools across Illinois for advanced curiculum.
I grew up in a small town pre-internet. Today, there is a wealth of information out there for a motivated student even if you school does not offer the course.
Bottom line, if you have a bright kid and work them very hard scholastically with additional work etc. then they will turn out hyper-advanced in most any educational system. Heck, I have one of the top...if not the best jr. colleges in the US not far from my house. I could enroll my kid there if they didn't already have college level coursework available thru thier highschool.
I really think it's more cultural as well as a numbers game. You may have been attending schools overseas that were the equivalent of a US magnet school and are here in the US in a non-magnet school now. Wait until you hit college and start seeing some of the motivated US kids as the average students won't be in your programs.
P.S. I'm assuming you are pursuing a medical field. Good luck.
I tried this with the "PISA results" thread, but I guess that title was too confusing.
I'm not sure they did fake it, although it wouldn't surprise me if they biased it in a way. Still the Chinese portion only concerned Shanghai and they've done massive work to make Shanghai's educational system good. If everything is above-board this states that a relatively affluent Chinese city that the regime wants to show off has in fact impressed, that they got what they paid for. I don't think it means average Chinese kids are much smarter or better educated than ours.
Average Finnish, Korean, Singaporean, or Taiwanese kids however are smarter or better educated than ours. We've known that for awhile though.
Well, even rural, poor areas in China took the PISA and scored near average among OECD nations (which means better than America, which is significantly below average in the OECD.)
that's very common. it's also why a lot of asians, even in asia are doing jobs that don't even use all of their potential. it's amazing. my aunt was an extremely smart cookie and if she had the opportunities in the west, she would be a top professional most likely but in asia, she was just a housewife. also, what's even more astounding is that a high school education in some asian countries is an equivalent to a bachelor's degree in education level in america.
In another test, Singapore's 50th percentile in Math was America's 95th percentile.
By that token, if you are in a school in America whose average Math SAT score is the nation's 95th percentile, you are in a school that is as tough as Singapore's Average.
Not to mention that the West has the best universities, better than Asia's best universities (located in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Tokyo).
If you are in one of those tough schools, as an above average (but not top) student, you may not stand a chance to get into Harvard either because Harvard can only accept a couple students from each school (If they admitted the top ten percent of applicants from your tough school, and you are in the 80th percentile, then you would not be admitted).
Thus America is not the land of opportunity it's cracked up to be, although much better than developing nations.
There is NO limit how many students per high schools they can accept. It is all a grades resumes etc game. So Harvard can indeed more students than some schools than others.
Just read the stats from my high school in the northeast. Very affluent area. Where education is a high priority for families. Approx 90per cent of grads go on to 4 year universities. Being in the east. Ivy league schools are the most popular.
The numbers I just read say 16 grads are going to michigan state! Class of 300
Also several each to Yale Harvard Princeton Columbia and other top schools
Just a FYI
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