Is Thailand more Indian or Chinese? (places, influence, names, compared)

[Lycanmaster]

Originally Posted by AnnieA

thai crusine was heavily influenced by the French.

I did not think the Thai people resembled the typical Cambodian that much. Cambodians are somewhat dark complexioned and we were told when we were there that that was the result of intermarriage with Indians back in the 12-13 centuries....

To me, Thai food is heavier than Vietnamese food. I don't remember a whole lot of distinction in Cambodian food. I love Cambodia and would not mind living there.

Quoted for truth...

With the exception that Vietnamese food, not Thai as far I am aware, is more influenced by the French...

[AnnieA]

Vanishing Saigon

From North to South

For those travelling from the North to the South, you will be sure to notice the change in flavors throughout Vietnam. Vietnamese cooking styles vary quite drastically from city to city due to the differences in climates, growing conditions and cultural influences from neighboring countries.
In the north, Vietnamese food uses fresh vegetables, quickly cooked sliced meats, and variations of rice noodles. A great example of a typical northern dish is Vietnamese Pho, which takes its name from the rice noodle (Phở) used when cooking the delicious soup. Although, it is commonly believed that the Pho dish was influenced by the French and Chinese, the popular dish is now worldly-known as a Vietnamese dish.In the south, the Vietnamese climate is more tropical, and as a result foods with a spicy kick are more prevalent. Chilies often supplement most dishes and sauces; it is not uncommon to find sliced chilies floating atop some fish sauce (nước mắm) or a mango salad. For much of this region, the dishes have been influenced by Khmer, Thai, and even Indian dishes. Many restaurants now serve Thai style hot pot and Indian curries, although most have been altered to match the tastes of the Vietnamese people. For example, a Vietnamese curry will generally be sweeter than an Indian curry; this is due to additional coconut milk added during the cooking process.
Vietnamese food has been influenced by
a variety of neighboring nations. Common throughout Vietnam are typical Chinese dishes, including: Chow Mein (mì xào), dumplings (há cảo), and wontons (hoành thánh). However, in the past two centuries, the French have had the largest influence on Vietnamese cuisine. The French introduced fresh baked bread, potatoes, and wine making to Vietnam during their colonization of the country. One of the most popular food items in Vietnam is bánh mì which is a combination of cold cut meats, fresh vegetables, butter, and soy sauce all placed inside a warm French baguette. This delicious sandwich is a popular street food to grab on the way to or from work; it also makes for a great late night snack.....snipped....

Thailand.com - Thai Cuisine!

...snipped...During the reign of King Narai the Great coinciding with the reign of King Louis XIV of France, thai food took a great leap forward. Foreigners and trades arrived in Thailand at our old capital in Ayutthaya. With them, they brought new ways of cooking as well as new ingredients. Thais did not use coconut milk in their food prior to the arrival of these foreign nationals. Westerners used to milk in their food suggested us to add coconut milk in our curries. Through experimentations the use of coconut milk in curries became the norm.

Coconut milk in those days was mainly used only in desserts and some dishes. It is an important ingredient as same as palm sugar and rice flour. With the arrival of the Portuguese, we were introduced to eggs in our ending meal. Such Portuguese dessert as golden threads and golden flowers, which are made of egg yolks and sugar syrup, are well known until these days. Some still think that these sweets are types of Thai national desserts but in reality they are Portuguese. Chinese people migrated to Thailand, especially the Fukianese. They brought with them their eating culture and through generations develop their owner food which later became a part of Thai cuisine.

Western cruisine had the greatest influence on Thai cuisine from the reigns of King Rama V onwards. Our beloved monarchs were educated in Europe and brought back with then western culture and western taste in food. From time to time we see this influence on the menu of some old style restaurants that serve Thai food but there are also stews available on their menu. Thais especially love beef tongue stew and this is definitely a left over influence from the western cuisine in the last 100 years....snipped...

I recognize the articles talks about Vietnamese, as well as, Thai food but, when I went to a cooking school in Chaing Rai for a couple of days, the chef mentioned the influence of the French on Thai cooking. I forget (it has been a few years and I am 70 years old-senior moments) what some of those influence were but, I do remember them being mentioned. That is why I mentioned it at first.

[cry_havoc]

Thailand is not a mixture of China and India. It has influences from both, but it is uniquely Thai, with its own culture.

[Trimac20]

The thing about coconut milk is interesting. It does seem a rather random thing to add to curry. It's something you find most India (mostly the south), Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia and southern Vietnam.

While influenced in some way by western thinking with regards to food I would hardly say Western cuisine has had much of an impact on Thai cuisine, unless you count modifying food to suit 'Western tastes'. The influence was probably more in cooking styles, rather than ingredients etc.

One interesting thing...I always assumed most Thais used chopsticks (even after visiting) but apparently knife and fork (or more commonly knife and spoon) are favoured there. Come to think I do recall using a knife and fork there, while in Vietnam and China it tends to always be chopsticks.

[sender]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

All that matters really is that the food from southeast asia is goddamn fantastic.

You must love pla ra? How many bugs did you eat?

[sender]

Great thread, very interesting, and informative. I just stumbled upon it!

I am sure that what one experiences in Thailand has all to do with where they are, who they are, and who they are with there. As well how long the stay is might tell much more.

North East Thailand, Isaan from what I have gathered, is the area where the "Original Thai" still inhabit. The country has become mixed with races from mainly China, Vietnam, and some others nearby. Many areas outside Isaan might show a higher population of white colored peoples. Isaan houses more of a darker skined race, they call it black. The phenomina that I still can't recover from is the such typical world wide predjudice that white is better than black and black is dirt low.

I tend to think more so, rather than what race they can be traced back to, that the heat and intensity of the sun over time has caused the skin color to darken. As I have noticed in my in laws, who are local Villagers, during the summer months they are much blacker from the sun.
But in my own sight of view many of the people in Isaan resemble the charecteristics of the Indian race.

If a person lives among the locals and their lifestyle then the food would not be appealing. I can't see how it could be.
But among the many food stalls and eateries the chances are that something very deliciouse can be found.
I enjoy only about 25% of what is available . But then again I am a spoiled Italian American Cook.

East Meets West.

I have been in popular restaurants in Isaan, once ordering fish. Nothing I expected came as the fish had cocktail franks with it and covered with brown gravey. I could keep on with a large list of this kind of experience there. Not Thai food realy, it couldn't be. And but I do love the Thai grilled fish with nam jim, som tum and sticky rice.
Bread and dinner buns are being served in many palces along with french fries, etc...
My favorite is a Chinese Omelet that you can get something called bread with for an extra 5 baht.
I found a lot of Chinese, French and other Western influence in much of the food.

Many Thai are not inclined toward enjoying Western food types. Much depends on their backgrounds as well. My wifes family makes special trips to Laos for Asian sandwiches that are made on French Bread, they are crazy about them. This because in the late 50's, when they were growing up, their Mom had a taste for the French influence that came from Laos which is just accross the river. That included potatoes and the such as well and they grew up familiar with that kind of food.

How things change, not always for the best as far as I am concerned, but it is what one makes of it. My wifes kids grew up eating Pizza Hut and KFC. A McDonalds has opened in Udon not too long ago.

A chicken cooked in a pot isn't much different whether it is cooked in America or Outer Mongolia.
I threw a few more vegges into our leftover soup with ground pork this evening and asked the wife if it was like Thai food or American. She said Chinese.

I have a bottle of Japanese soy sauce and some Thai oyster sauce, whip up a dinner with that, some pork or fish, onion and some basil, garlic and hot peppers. I'm not sure anymore what it is, maybe Italian American Thai Fusion with Japanese tamari?


But as far as "real Thai food" you had better ask questions and watch what you are eating over there. Or stick with grilled fish if it's a good place and the mangos in season.

[Trimac20]

Thanks for sharing, sender! I thought Isaan or Isan was ethnically Lao, and the people spoke a dialect/language more like Laotian? I also heard many of the bargirls are from here as it's the poorest region in Thailand. A few of the bargirls looked Indian but most looked Thai, Chinese, Cambodian.etc, of course most are Thai nationally.

I know they have their own distinctive dishes in Isan. I love Banh Mi, Vietnamese baguette sandwiches, too, very different to Western sandwiches. The bread is so fresh and crunchy and the pork so succulent and spicy. Yes, Western food is getting a lot more popular in Asia, pity so much of it is junk food. Btw I wonder if Japanese Udon is popular in Udon? lol

So you're an expat living in Thailand married to a Thai wife?

[sender]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

Thanks for sharing, sender! I thought Isaan or Isan was ethnically Lao, and the people spoke a dialect/language more like Laotian? I also heard many of the bargirls are from here as it's the poorest region in Thailand. A few of the bargirls looked Indian but most looked Thai, Chinese, Cambodian.etc, of course most are Thai nationally.

I know they have their own distinctive dishes in Isan. I love Banh Mi, Vietnamese baguette sandwiches, too, very different to Western sandwiches. The bread is so fresh and crunchy and the pork so succulent and spicy. Yes, Western food is getting a lot more popular in Asia, pity so much of it is junk food. Btw I wonder if Japanese Udon is popular in Udon? lol

So you're an expat living in Thailand married to a Thai wife?

Where to begin to begin? I am still here anyway. If I remember right you are the OP on this thread? Glad to meet you.

Some times in the drifts different people tell me different things about things.
My wife just told me that the "original Thai" are located in Ayudtaya. 200 years ago they were pushed in a battle with Laos from Ayudtaya into Isaan, probably why the language became so much the same.

Maybe it's true, but I was told "never beleive anything they tell you." Just could be she wants no connection to the Laos in her mind.
Leraning about these people is quite a roller coaster ride, a whole world of fun.

Where did you encounter the bar girls? Pataya? I think many of them flounder away from the rural poor areas thinking they can get some material life.

I am not always so sure of what any of them look like, but yes Cambodian, Laos, Thai very much the same appearence. I think the most beautiful are the ones who look so much the same as the faces you would see in Indian Artwork. But how all Indians (or Thai,etc..) look is another question unanswered to me.


Probably the same sub roll in Laos as Vietnam. It is odd because I can buy the same exact french roll here in N.H. at the Saigon Market. But not spicey pork in Laos..some kind of wierd looking cold cuts with shredded papaya and sweet sauce. The rolls are fabulous, one of my favorites, and in Thailand I made meatball and pepper subs with them and Italian subs, tuna salad etc...

I had spent two years in Udon Thani.
I would rather be in Thailand but the course of nature has set me back in the States with my wife and she is comfortable in many ways being here now and stubborn.
I love Thailand, it's weather and all. If I could say anything quickly about the whole deal it is that I always come up a few bucks short. :0)..

The Japanese Udon Noodles are different. They are fat spaghetti. The Thai noodles and chinese are better varieties!

[Trimac20]

Yep I'm the OP, nice to meet you too!

The origin of the Thai people is interesting. My understand is that they've got different 'origins' if you like. The usual narrative is that the Dai people, who still reside in Yunnan and Guangxi provinces in China, migrated south to the Chao Phraya area and set up several kingdoms (my Thai history is sketchy). They had skirmishes/wars with the Burmese especially, I think. There was probably some mixing with natives, some of whom were probably Austronesian peoples who had come thousands of years before. Since the Dai look more Chinese than a lot of 'native Thai', although many Thai these days look more Chinese due to intermixing. History is often influenced by politics, mind you, so it's hard to get to the real truth.

I encountered the bargirls in Bangkok and Phuket. It was mainly just to see what it was like. It was interesting to see the diversity of looks present, the Thais, while culturally homogeneous seem phenotypically diverse. Few really looked Indian, none could pass for Indians. Indeed many are poor rural folk, but some are probably poor urban girls too.

Thai look most like the Lao, but Lao look closer to the original Dai and more like the Southern Chinese/ethnic minority groups. Cambodians have diverse phenotypes, ranging from Chinese-looking, to Malay looking to almost Indian looking, probably because of the Indianised kingdoms starting over 2,000 years ago.

You have to try the Vietnamese version work spicy pork. Fatty but good! They sometimes also have cold cuts or pate.

Of course I know Udon is Japanese, was just making a joke lol.

[sender]

I know. I only had Udon Noodles once right here in the U.S. and will never have it again,lol! It was bland.

I'm glad I found my way into this thread tonight, I share your interest in the history and migration of the people in S.E. Asia, and am just learning from you.

My wife told me a bit she learned in school in Thailand about their history.
I'm surprized that they migrated from as far north as Mongolia. They must have warred their way down China and as she said that at Burma the races inter-related, and later warred further on in history toward Laos from Burma.
That I think explains some of the facts that you are putting accross on the thread.


My first impression was that the Thai (at least my wife) looked Laotian. But could it be the other way around, that the Laotian look (are) Thai?
What's the mix? Just a river between them and four sides.

History and time all around is so much vast space, not enough evidence of everything to know it all as there is too much lost in the waves of time.


My wife thinks she can find some more info on Thai History. If she gains on it I will post.