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I would much rather live in Kuala Lumpur. It's generally a much nicer city and the cuisine there is amazing. There is a bit of muslim conservatism there, but that also means having less of a drunken expat scene which can be both good and bad. At the same time, it's not so conservative as other Muslim countries elsewhere in the world and the city has nightlife districts. Kuala Lumpur is also significantly more diverse and cosmopolitan than Manila and that is very obviously at street level. Though really, I don't think I'd want to live in either very long. I've only visited KL and stayed a few weeks in Manila. Both were somewhat disappointing for different reasons. KL because I felt it was somewhat boring (though I didn't have any friends familiar with the city to take me around, so I might have just been going to the wrong places) and surprisingly difficult to get around without a car. Manila because it had amazing inequality and poverty which is really tangible in a lot of ways (like people sleeping in the streets or little kids begging for money or some of your food or people constantly hassling you as a tourist to sell you something or a service). I had also expected Manila and the Philippines in general to be somewhat more like Latin America, but that was a really faulty assumption on my part.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-22-2013 at 09:53 AM..
Absolutely. I've been assigned to Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines. I've used KL's lovely airport and rode their light rail. I agree KL is cleaner. But if I want to be an MNC executive, I would rather cut my teeth in Manila than KL.
We're not comparing the economic development of both cities. Quite the opposite, ambitious expats want to work in less developed locations that offer more career responsibilities and will get the attention of higher ups. They are more concerned with fast promotions and career advancement, not quality of life. Nowadays, Indonesia is a big expat attraction despite its income inequality.
So if you want to advance your career, you can do it better from Manila than KL. You don't hear a lot of ambitious professionals saying "I want to be assigned to Stockholm!"
No, but you brought that up. TB said that sans economics where would you rather live. Still, I can't see how one can't have a successful career in numerous fields in KL vs the Phils. Sure, maybe your dollar goes further in Manila, but I would say the overall quality of life in KL is just better for most expats.
I would much rather live in Kuala Lumpur. It's generally a much nicer city and the cuisine there is amazing. There is a bit of muslim conservatism there, but that also means having less of a drunken expat scene which can be both good and bad. At the same time, it's not so conservative as other Muslim countries elsewhere in the world and the city has nightlife districts. Kuala Lumpur is also significantly more diverse and cosmopolitan than Manila and that is very obviously at street level. Though really, I don't think I'd want to live in either very long. I've only visited KL and stayed a few weeks in Manila. Both were somewhat disappointing for different reasons.
KL definitely does have a bar/club nightlife scene, and as in much of SEA there's a late night culture where there are a lot of people out shopping, eating, drinking, and just socialising well after dark. It's definitely not like some cities in the Middle East in that regard. I think cuisine alone is a huge point in favour for KL. There's hardly a type of cuisine that can't be found in KL. Probably some of the best Indian food in the world, for a start.
KL definitely does have a bar/club nightlife scene, and as in much of SEA there's a late night culture where there are a lot of people out shopping, eating, drinking, and just socialising well after dark. It's definitely not like some cities in the Middle East in that regard. I think cuisine alone is a huge point in favour for KL. There's hardly a type of cuisine that can't be found in KL. Probably some of the best Indian food in the world, for a start.
Yea, it's way better than cities in the Middle East (or so I've been told--I've never made a trip out there). It's just a little less gritty and raucous than maybe in other cities of southeast Asia.
No, but you brought that up. TB said that sans economics where would you rather live. Still, I can't see how one can't have a successful career in numerous fields in KL vs the Phils. Sure, maybe your dollar goes further in Manila, but I would say the overall quality of life in KL is just better for most expats.
It was you who first compared the development of both countries. I made no such prior comment.
I repeat - Most expats don't chase quality of life. They want challenge and career advancement. Manila offers more for an expat's career than KL. If it weren't for career advancement, why would someone agree to leave his or her home country in the first place?
You can have a much more successful career in a place where your responsibilities are wider and more globally focused. That is the advantage of Manila being a larger consumer market and a global shared services platform. These are the kinds of assignements that get you noticed by the higher ups. That is the reason why no matter how you slice and dice it, Manila has twice the number of expats than KL even if some people in these forums claim that KL is "a much nicer city". OK KL's nice, but not a place where you become successful in a big company.
As I posted already, KL's businesses are much more domestically focused and Malaysia's population too small to offer meaningful career growth opportunities. You'll be doing fewer new product launches and your work will be limited to your country office. A P&G executive would scoff at being assigned to KL unless there was someone scratching his back. With Manila, it is a stepping stone to the corner office (former P&G CEO was once the Philippines GM).
So the reality still is that Manila is a better expat destination than KL.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 11-22-2013 at 12:17 PM..
It was you who first compared the development of both countries. I made no such prior comment.
I repeat - Most expats don't chase quality of life. They want challenge and career advancement. Manila offers more for an expat's career than KL. If it weren't for career advancement, why would someone agree to leave his or her home country in the first place?
You can have a much more successful career in a place where your responsibilities are wider and more globally focused. That is the advantage of Manila being a larger consumer market and a global shared services platform. These are the kinds of assignements that get you noticed by the higher ups. That is the reason why no matter how you slice and dice it, Manila has twice the number of expats than KL even if some people in these forums claim that KL is "a much nicer city". OK KL's nice, but not a place where you become successful in a big company.
As I posted already, KL's businesses are much more domestically focused and Malaysia's population too small to offer meaningful career growth opportunities. You'll be doing fewer new product launches and your work will be limited to your country office. A P&G executive would scoff at being assigned to KL unless there was someone scratching his back. With Manila, it is a stepping stone to the corner office (former P&G CEO was once the Philippines GM).
So the reality still is that Manila is a better expat destination than KL.
Have you interviewed them all? Quality of life is definitely a huge factor for many expats, especially retirees. And I don't see why Manila is better for career than KL. KL is a more global city, has more wealth, fortune 500 companies (it's ranked higher globally). For it's size and sprawl and slums Manila actually is quite a lot behind KL, so I find it odd you're saying Manila is better for career than the likes of KL, let alone Bangkok, Singapore, HK, Shanghai.
Except that the Philippines has almost twice the expat population as Malaysia. It's a rough estimate. 65K for the entire Philippines, 32K for "west Malaysia" which comprises KL and houses the greater majority of Malaysia's expats.
Those are interesting statistics. Didnt realize that before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman
Eh, I suspect the lure of cheap women (same with Thailand) and historical connections with the US work in the Philippine's favour. Plus it's very cheap even compared to Malaysia. Malaysia just isn't that well known to a lot of Americans, maybe because there aren't many Malaysian Americans. Being an ex British colony, I suspect there are more expats from the Commonwealth in Malaysia. The 'Malaysia my 2nd home' programme tried to attract people to retire there, and you can see condos being built everywhere.
True about Americans not being familiar with Malaysia as much as they might be with the Philippines. But expats can be from any country, not necessarily just from the U.S. However, unsure where the exact stats are coming from though.
I do think the çheap women is a major draw for people to both Thailand and the Philippines, much more than other reasons. Which would make the expat population greater in favor of the Philippines.
The other big elephant is that the Philippines has had military bases there for years, and tons of American soldiers have lived there, and many remain or go back there well into retirement as well.
In short, I don't think '# of expats" is the best barometer for a better place, but it certainly is one criteria to mark something as for a reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy
The bottomline is working in Manila offers more opportunities to move up in the company and that makes it more advantageous for ambitious expats.
This is just one person's barometer for what makes it a better place. For someone in that position, i.e. ambitious person making a company career abroad, than it sounds like Manila is the winner.
However, not every expat abroad is making a life in a corporation. However, I think if I were in that situation, I probably would pick Manila.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I would much rather live in Kuala Lumpur. It's generally a much nicer city and the cuisine there is amazing. There is a bit of muslim conservatism there, but that also means having less of a drunken expat scene which can be both good and bad. At the same time, it's not so conservative as other Muslim countries elsewhere in the world and the city has nightlife districts. Kuala Lumpur is also significantly more diverse and cosmopolitan than Manila and that is very obviously at street level. Though really, I don't think I'd want to live in either very long. I've only visited KL and stayed a few weeks in Manila. Both were somewhat disappointing for different reasons. KL because I felt it was somewhat boring (though I didn't have any friends familiar with the city to take me around, so I might have just been going to the wrong places) and surprisingly difficult to get around without a car. Manila because it had amazing inequality and poverty which is really tangible in a lot of ways (like people sleeping in the streets or little kids begging for money or some of your food or people constantly hassling you as a tourist to sell you something or a service). I had also expected Manila and the Philippines in general to be somewhat more like Latin America, but that was a really faulty assumption on my part.
Some good stuff here. There is some fun nightlife in KL though, I kinda like it. Tons of women from the Middle East come over to KL, and dress up to the nine's!! It's interesting to see a mix of Middle Eastern, CHinese, Malay, Indian, and other randoms, Brits, Europeans and the like. That's one of the big plusses for KL, it is so cosmpolitan and filled with so many differnet cultures.
Manila is definitely the FUN one though. I agree with the inequality and poverty issues which makes Manila a bit tough to deal with at times, with the begging kids, hassling the foreigner, and other types of things.
I'm basically undecided on which I like better. But, I like them both, more than other potential cities though. I mean, as far as potential living/retiring and such, if one wasn't dependent on finding work in one of the cities.
Have you even been to Malaysia? It's got less than 1/3 the population of the Philippines but a larger GDP. It's more developed, the people have a better quality of life, it's safer, more modern.etc. Malaysia is still the most visited country in South East Asia too. Economically, while past it's glory days, Malaysia is still a major player.
Tourist visitors are pretty close to Thailand, half of all tourists to Malysia are from Singapore.. Considering they border each other..
I chose KL for ease of getting around
But Manila is a lot more fun, if you are with a local
Those are interesting statistics. Didnt realize that before.
True about Americans not being familiar with Malaysia as much as they might be with the Philippines. But expats can be from any country, not necessarily just from the U.S. However, unsure where the exact stats are coming from though.
I do think the çheap women is a major draw for people to both Thailand and the Philippines, much more than other reasons. Which would make the expat population greater in favor of the Philippines.
The other big elephant is that the Philippines has had military bases there for years, and tons of American soldiers have lived there, and many remain or go back there well into retirement as well.
In short, I don't think '# of expats" is the best barometer for a better place, but it certainly is one criteria to mark something as for a reference.
This is just one person's barometer for what makes it a better place. For someone in that position, i.e. ambitious person making a company career abroad, than it sounds like Manila is the winner.
However, not every expat abroad is making a life in a corporation. However, I think if I were in that situation, I probably would pick Manila.
Some good stuff here. There is some fun nightlife in KL though, I kinda like it. Tons of women from the Middle East come over to KL, and dress up to the nine's!! It's interesting to see a mix of Middle Eastern, CHinese, Malay, Indian, and other randoms, Brits, Europeans and the like. That's one of the big plusses for KL, it is so cosmpolitan and filled with so many differnet cultures.
Manila is definitely the FUN one though. I agree with the inequality and poverty issues which makes Manila a bit tough to deal with at times, with the begging kids, hassling the foreigner, and other types of things.
I'm basically undecided on which I like better. But, I like them both, more than other potential cities though. I mean, as far as potential living/retiring and such, if one wasn't dependent on finding work in one of the cities.
I've noticed a lot more Middle Easterners these days too. Went to Sunway Lagoon with my friend a couple of years ago and noticed the place seemed full of Middle Easterners. Lots of hair lol.
Interesting, what is Manila's nightlife scene like? More like Bangkok? Maybe the area I went to but it seemed dominated by sleaze. Maybe that's cos I went to Patpong just to check it out. Khao San wasn't too bad, but just really touristy. I imagine Manila is less touristy and catering more to local. What is a typical night out like there? Restaurants, bars, karaoke, electronic dance music, live music? In Australia at least the Philippines just seemed ignored compared to Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, HK. I recently saw some visit the philippines tourism ads in Melbourne though.
Tourist visitors are pretty close to Thailand, half of all tourists to Malysia are from Singapore.. Considering they border each other..
I chose KL for ease of getting around
But Manila is a lot more fun, if you are with a local
That does indeed skew stats. Looking at the stats, though, the number of British tourists to both Malaysia and Singapore combined is almost as many as Thailand, so it's not like those two are off the map. Malaysia is definitely better for nature/scenery, however (more well preserved, although still not good enough), and the food is arguably even better, although it's a close call. Remember Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong were British colonies too.
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lol.
