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Have you interviewed them all? Quality of life is definitely a huge factor for many expats, especially retirees. And I don't see why Manila is better for career than KL. KL is a more global city, has more wealth, fortune 500 companies (it's ranked higher globally). For it's size and sprawl and slums Manila actually is quite a lot behind KL, so I find it odd you're saying Manila is better for career than the likes of KL, let alone Bangkok, Singapore, HK, Shanghai.
Were you following my posts? I AM one of them. More expats go to Manila than KL. You don't need to ask anyone about this.
I worked in Manila, Singapore, KL, Bangkok, LA and NYC. Your pronouncements that KL has "more wealth" is irrelevant. You won't get far working for Petronas. And the MNCs based in KL are focused on Malaysia's small domestic market. Let's put it in a simple way. If you were a brand manager at P&G, your market will be around 28 million working in KL. In Manila, your market will be 100 million. If you worked in one of Manila's MNC shared services divisions, you will meet execs from around the world as a routine. In KL, you don't get that opportunity since there are not many shared services offices there. So yeah, you can work for an F-500 company in KL but you won't get noticed. KL does not look like a good place to make your mark.
And we are comparing Manila to KL. Nobody is talking about Bangkok, Singapore or Shanghai. Enough with the smoke and mirrors, please.
I find it laughable that in a thread about which city is better, the only retort some people can give to the undisputable fact that Manila has around twice as many expats as KL is the usual "KL is richer" without really understanding what expats are typically looking for or why big companies locate their expats in a certain country (hint: it's not about the women). They can never accept that Manila is a superior location compared with KL.
That's what happens when one gets drunk with Mahatir's cool aid. Back in the 80s and 90s, he blabbered about how KL and Langkawi would become financial centers and how Malaysia would be a big player in the auto industry. Fast forward 20 years later, Singapore is #1 in finance and telecoms, Manila is #1 in BPO and shared services, Bangkok is #1 in auto and now Jakarta will be #1 in consumer. These cities are major global players. KL on the other hand is a marginal player except in rubber. Sounds like a cool place for an expat to build a career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
In short, I don't think '# of expats" is the best barometer for a better place, but it certainly is one criteria to mark something as for a reference.
However, not every expat abroad is making a life in a corporation. However, I think if I were in that situation, I probably would pick Manila.
It's objective and it does tell you what expats typically are thinking of. For example, Jakarta is a much dirtier city than KL but there are 45K to 50K expats located there and the number is growing fast so it's not just a Manila aberration. KL's expat population is a paltry number by comparison - paltry when compared with Manila, paltry when compared with other ASEAN countries. What can you expect from a city that offers paltry career opportunities? Are you surprised that expats do not flock to KL? I would say that expats who relocate for QOL represent the minority of expats whereas those who do so because of ambition are more representative.
For those looking for QOL, well, there are other places in the wold that have much more to offer than KL.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 11-23-2013 at 07:06 PM..
Well you're the expert, I guess. But career opportunities are merely one reason why expats go to a country. As a place to live, give me KL anytime. No real slums, English is the unofficial language of business, more global/westernised, safer in general, better food, cheaper flights to the rest of Asia.etc.
Were you following my posts? I AM one of them. More expats go to Manila than KL. You don't need to ask anyone about this.
I worked in Manila, Singapore, KL, Bangkok, LA and NYC. Your pronouncements that KL has "more wealth" is irrelevant. You won't get far working for Petronas. And the MNCs based in KL are focused on Malaysia's small domestic market. Let's put it in a simple way. If you were a brand manager at P&G, your market will be around 28 million working in KL. In Manila, your market will be 100 million. If you worked in one of Manila's MNC shared services divisions, you will meet execs from around the world as a routine. In KL, you don't get that opportunity since there are not many shared services offices there. So yeah, you can work for an F-500 company in KL but you won't get noticed. KL does not look like a good place to make your mark.
And we are comparing Manila to KL. Nobody is talking about Bangkok, Singapore or Shanghai. Enough with the smoke and mirrors, please.
I find it laughable that in a thread about which city is better, the only retort some people can give to the undisputable fact that Manila has around twice as many expats as KL is the usual "KL is richer" without really understanding what expats are typically looking for or why big companies locate their expats in a certain country (hint: it's not about the women). They can never accept that Manila is a superior location compared with KL.
That's what happens when one gets drunk with Mahatir's cool aid. Back in the 80s and 90s, he blabbered about how KL and Langkawi would become financial centers and how Malaysia would be a big player in the auto industry. Fast forward 20 years later, Singapore is #1 in finance and telecoms, Manila is #1 in BPO and shared services, Bangkok is #1 in auto and now Jakarta will be #1 in consumer. These cities are major global players. KL on the other hand is a marginal player except in rubber. Sounds like a cool place for an expat to build a career.
It's objective and it does tell you what expats typically are thinking of. For example, Jakarta is a much dirtier city than KL but there are 45K to 50K expats located there and the number is growing fast so it's not just a Manila aberration. KL's expat population is a paltry number by comparison - paltry when compared with Manila, paltry when compared with other ASEAN countries. What can you expect from a city that offers paltry career opportunities? Are you surprised that expats do not flock to KL? I would say that expats who relocate for QOL represent the minority of expats whereas those who do so because of ambition are more representative.
For those looking for QOL, well, there are other places in the wold that have much more to offer than KL.
KL is also a significantly smaller city. It has something like half the expat population of either Manila or Jakarta, but like a quarter of the total population, right?
Yes. But it also means KL offers half the number of career opportunities, and the number is declining. Consumer market is already maxed out and assignments are domestically focused. Less opportunities makes it less desirable as a career destination.
Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 11-24-2013 at 05:41 AM..
Yes. But it also means KL offers half the number of career opportunities, and the number is declining. Consumer market is already maxed out and assignments are domestically focused. Less opportunities makes it less desirable as a career destination.
And are the Phils on the up? I haven't heard much about them but let's hope so...still Manila can only dream about competing with Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, even Bangkok. I think even Ho Chi Minh might begin to overtake Manila if it doesn't get it's act together. Despite being such a massive megacity it doesn't feature highly on the Asian stage.
Yes. But it also means KL offers half the number of career opportunities, and the number is declining. Consumer market is already maxed out and assignments are domestically focused. Less opportunities makes it less desirable as a career destination.
Yea, makes sense. I was trying to put it in the context of the result of being a smaller country and city (though punching above its weight comparatively).
I think for those who are trying to climb the corporate ladder, then Manila does make more sense. The topic asked about where I would rather live, and since I work for myself and basically an enjoyable safe environment and a stable internet connection and mail/parcel service is what I'd need, KL seems like the obvious choice between the two for me. That being said, I wouldn't be too keen on staying very long in either.
And are the Phils on the up? I haven't heard much about them but let's hope so...still Manila can only dream about competing with Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, even Bangkok. I think even Ho Chi Minh might begin to overtake Manila if it doesn't get it's act together. Despite being such a massive megacity it doesn't feature highly on the Asian stage.
Except we are comparing Manila with KL and not other cities. I agree Singapore will be tough to beat in the numbers because the financial industry attracts a lot of expats. Bangkok has an advantage because of its access to the Indochinese market but Vietnam will one day give it a run for its money. The Philippines will continue to be a good expat destination because no other ASEAN country can compete with its BPO and shared services industries, which are the sectors that are attracting expats to the Manila currently.
Yea, makes sense. I was trying to put it in the context of the result of being a smaller country and city (though punching above its weight comparatively).
I would struggle to see how KL and Malaysia as a country punches above its weight considering that it's not a #1 player in most industries in ASEAN. I think Mahatir was distracted by too many ambitions that Malaysia could not focus on a few value adding industries where it can be a major player. He tried to get into cars, heavy industry, electronics, finance, aerospace etc. They initially did well in electronics but then came China. Admittedly they almost succeeded with Proton but Thailand came into the picture and made itself the ASEAN base for the larger auto companies. I can't believe that the Philippines has surpassed Malaysia in the aircraft industry, as well as shipbuilding and ship repair when Malaysia has a far better geographic location but somehow it did.
I would struggle to see how KL and Malaysia as a country punches above its weight considering that it's not a #1 player in most industries in ASEAN. I think Mahatir was distracted by too many ambitions that Malaysia could not focus on a few value adding industries where it can be a major player. He tried to get into cars, heavy industry, electronics, finance, aerospace etc. They initially did well in electronics but then came China. Admittedly they almost succeeded with Proton but Thailand came into the picture and made itself the ASEAN base for the larger auto companies. I can't believe that the Philippines has surpassed Malaysia in the aircraft industry, as well as shipbuilding and ship repair when Malaysia has a far better geographic location but somehow it did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Yea, makes sense. I was trying to put it in the context of the result of being a smaller country and city (though punching above its weight comparatively).
I think for those who are trying to climb the corporate ladder, then Manila does make more sense. The topic asked about where I would rather live, and since I work for myself and basically an enjoyable safe environment and a stable internet connection and mail/parcel service is what I'd need, KL seems like the obvious choice between the two for me. That being said, I wouldn't be too keen on staying very long in either.
Figured I'd reiterate a bit. It's a country of 28 million in a part of the world that's generally pretty poor. The metro area for KL is about 6 million in an area that has megacities that are closer to 20 million. Singapore punches more above its weight, KL punches somewhat above its weight. Does that make more sense now?
Interesting. I hadn't heard that before, about Manila's suburbs being more like NYC boroughs. Do you 'feel' completely different characteristics in the different ones?
I've spent time in Manila (Ermite/Malate) and Makati....but only seen a little bit of some of the others. Which are some of the more unique or top interesting ones, that you'd say? And why?
I dont think that most of the 17 cities have a unique feel. When I said they were like boroughs, I meant that they feel like different sections of 1 big city rather than separate cities or suburbs. Metro Manila is 1 official entity called the "National Capital Region" It's not a metropolitan area in the traditional sense of 1 main city and then a bunch of suburbs.
Anyways, I think that Manila would feel like a huge headache compared to Kuala Lumpur. There are really only a few places in Manila where you can live a truly first-world lifestyle
Bonifacio Global City
Makati CBD and Ortigas are also nice, but they still have some Manila problems (traffic and beggars).
Last edited by Smtchll; 11-24-2013 at 10:40 PM..
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