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I think the bad students are influenced by their parents. Their teachers' role is only secondary. And I think the subject Liberal Studies is not problematic, it is designed by the HK government which you can rely on for being right on facts like Japanese invasion of China and HK being a part of China. Some of the teachers expressing their own opinions influenced their students and parents' role is even bigger.
Some of the parents' beliefs stem from ardent anti-Communism and deep distrust of anything from the Beijing government. I'm sure quite a few still bear a grudge to past events in Chinese history such as Land Reform, the Cultural Revolution, and the June 4 Tiananmen Square Massacre. You are right though that many of the protesters come from privileged backgrounds. Joshua Wong for instance comes from a well to do Christian family and received a good education from a Christian secondary school. His and other protesters' privileged backgrounds might have played a role in drawing the ire of more working class individuals who do not have the time, money, intellect, or patience for protesting or radical reforms.
Don't understand why people have so much time discussing a pro Trump or US "expert's opinion" here as if the US is always right. Normal HK people are busy with work or enjoying life while seeing other non normal people in HK being arrested by causing harm to society. Not all students in HK are bad, schools have resumed, many are busy studying, those who are causing problems are not part of us, they belong to western countries but are unhappily discriminated there and may be treated with police brutality against non white people. These people are just funny, hate China but buy from pro China supermarkets in HK and ride the pro China MTR every day. Their "anti China HK economy" is laughed by people because it also involves importing from Mainland China indirectly or buying from pro China HK businesses.
I think the bad students are influenced by their parents. Their teachers' role is only secondary. And I think the subject Liberal Studies is not problematic, it is designed by the HK government which you can rely on for being right on facts like Japanese invasion of China and HK being a part of China. Some of the teachers expressing their own opinions influenced their students and parents' role is even bigger.
Fact is most media of HK are not anti Mainland China, only a few are. There are far more non anti mainland China newspapers and their readers than their competitors. Tv stations in HK are all neutral but some of their staff are not. Censored news in mainland China may be reported by most non anti mainland China media in HK. The HKSAR gov condemns teachers who teach non true things or 'bad things' they IMAGINED.
In the last few days, there are more people, mainly non young people, signing to support the new national security bill than the number of protestors. Adding the supporters of the bill and many HK people who don't care, the sum number is far larger than the people against it. People should need to know most HK people care more about peace and income, not influenced by bs of people not truly understanding HK such as foreigners who only know one side instead of both sides of the controversy. Both English and Cantonese news of big HK media report both sides' opinions instead of only one side by western and taiwanese media.
I disagree with a few things.
for some reason, the hk youth is much more influenced by their teachers than their parents. That's why the "brain washing" was so effective by anti government camp. The bond among students/classmates/schoolmates in hk is much more stronger than most of chinese. they call each other "teacher sisters/brothers" and that applies to all the schoolmates. They do not have prom, but they have "thank teacher party". so you can see, how the teachers plays a major role in the youth development of hong kong
you can't really quantify number of media these days, because anyone that has a youtube channel is considered part of the media, and they pay 150 hk dollar and they became an official reporter, no age, degree requirement what so ever.
what's worse, is that the only state sponsored media (rthk, which runs on tax payer's money), is known to be anti government and anti china for a long time. I really don't know if there is another place that have this type of non-sense.
Some of the parents' beliefs stem from ardent anti-Communism and deep distrust of anything from the Beijing government. I'm sure quite a few still bear a grudge to past events in Chinese history such as Land Reform, the Cultural Revolution, and the June 4 Tiananmen Square Massacre. You are right though that many of the protesters come from privileged backgrounds. Joshua Wong for instance comes from a well to do Christian family and received a good education from a Christian secondary school. His and other protesters' privileged backgrounds might have played a role in drawing the ire of more working class individuals who do not have the time, money, intellect, or patience for protesting or radical reforms.
well, I don't think that's true. Of all the anti government hk politicians, most of them are not from a privileged background. The only privileged ones are lawyers in that camp.
receiving a good education from a Christian school is not considered privileged in hk. Everyone in hk receives educations from school (most are christian or catholic or even buddahist, that's how hk schools work). Almost all of the protestors lives in "public housing", so there is no way they are privileged.
The violent student demonstrators do not all come from privileged background.
The one who got the longest sentence -- 6 years -- so far, Edward Leung, is born in the now famous city of Wuhan. He moved to Hong Kong in 1992 with his parents when he was 1 year old. It is rumored that both his parents were CCP members. It might be true. Other than immigrants from Guangdong and Fujian who are relatives to HKers, all immigrants from other provinces come via non-traditional means. Nobody knows on what rationale they can come to HK from China. It is because who can come to HK is not decided by the HK government, but by various Public Security Bureau in different cities in China.
In fact, all those privileged families have moved somewhere else. Since the fate of HK was decided in 1983, there have been three waves of immigration which hundreds of thousands of people sought a more secure life somewhere else.
The violent student demonstrators do not all come from privileged background.
The one who got the longest sentence -- 6 years -- so far, Edward Leung, is born in the now famous city of Wuhan. He moved to Hong Kong in 1992 with his parents when he was 1 year old. It is rumored that both his parents were CCP members. It might be true. Other than immigrants from Guangdong and Fujian who are relatives to HKers, all immigrants from other provinces come via non-traditional means. Nobody knows on what rationale they can come to HK from China. It is because who can come to HK is not decided by the HK government, but by various Public Security Bureau in different cities in China.
In fact, all those privileged families have moved somewhere else. Since the fate of HK was decided in 1983, there have been three waves of immigration which hundreds of thousands of people sought a more secure life somewhere else.
yes, to add a bit more of the information, it was so ironic that it was the pandemocrat lawyers (those that are now anti-chinese) that helped to establish laws that allow mainland born children of hong konger to become hong kong citizens.
I also think the system of handing out "single pass" (allows mainlander to become hk citizens) can be problematic. However, most of the cases now a days is for reuniting families. The hk government cannot decide because they do not have the information all of the chinese families. Only the chinese government have those information to determine who can reunite in HK as families.
and that is right, most of the university students in HK are no where near privileged families. Those that are privileged studies aboard in western countries and then return to hk to take the high paying jobs. That's why you see so many protestors/rioters in universities.
No you are not. All your do is blaming HKers for protesting with the "HKers should've been happy with the freedom they had" when they had extremely little freedom and that they were violent when the police brutality was absolutely out of control.
Maybe you should tell your Norwegian friends that you think Norway should never have fought back when Nazi Germany invaded you and that Vidkun Quisling had the right idea since that's clearly your stance on Hong Kong's situation now. I would love to hear about their reactions..
You seriously need a history lesson. There were no riots in Norwegian cities during the war, and the two months of fighting was mainly a tactical retreat to wait for allied troops. After that, Norway mainly focused on secret actions to hurt the nazi regime, not violent protests.
The Norwegian bureaucracy started immediately working for the Germans and that includes the police. But Norwegians knew better than shouting "If we burn, then you will burn with us" and have violent clashes with the police and destroy any store that is german owned. It would have not hurt Germany were much, but it would hurt Norway, especially if Nazi Germany never lost the war.
Hong Kong people did not have exremly little freedom before this protest. It was ranked as one of the most free cities in Asia. Norway under the occupation of Germany did not have the same freedoms Hong Kong had a year ago. So yes, they should treasure what they have, because as we can see, they can easily lose it.
I think Camlon may be a wumao masquerading as a more moderate pro HK democracy person in an attempt to appeal to the pro democracy camp's common sense.
I agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester
I do not condone violence from protestors and don't pretend that all protestors are good. But the cause the protestors are fighting for is all good and the CCP is pure evil. And for every violent amateur protestor there's several more HK police armed to the teeth and professionally trained to kill. Any rule of law has ceased to exist in HK.
People here are asking why HKers oppose the extradition bill when France already has an extradition agreement with China. That's different. France is a sovereign country that still has power over whether it wants to extradite citizens to China. HK is a puppet state.
As for the national security bill, it is 100 percent blatant and unconstiutional tyranny. As long as Beijing thinks it's above the law, there will be no democracy nor freedom in HK. The only option for HK is independence or reversion to UK rule, or merger with Taiwan.
And if you still think the protesters are ridiculous, consider the fact that people in any country, including you, would protest if Beijing's tyranny came to your country. The fact that you aren't protesting is a sign of how privileged you are to live in a free and prosperous country like America or the UK or Germany.
If I was an arms dealers and the PLA invaded HK, I would buy weapons from a corrupt PLA general and then sell them to the HK insurgency with a copy mao's on guerilla war. And then i'd laugh at the irony.
I think Camlon may be a wumao masquerading as a more moderate pro HK democracy person in an attempt to appeal to the pro democracy camp's common sense.
You guys have become paronoid. Try to consider the thought that I am not masquerading, I am just a moderate who is trying to tell you that the protests in Hong Kong are counterproductive. "If we burn, then you will burn with us" is a stupid strategy to get more freedom for Hong Kong.
And if you go to www.diskusjon.no, you will find another Camlon user posting in Norwegian with similar opinions as me. Of course, that is my user as well.
But I guess you guys think I am just a Chinese national who picked the user Camlon in 2010, so that I could pretend to be the same user as on diskusjon.no?
You guys have become paronoid. Try to consider the thought that I am not masquerading, I am just a moderate who is trying to tell you that the protests in Hong Kong are counterproductive. "If we burn, then you will burn with us" is a stupid strategy to get more freedom for Hong Kong.
And if you go to www.diskusjon.no, you will find another Camlon user posting in Norwegian with similar opinions as me. Of course, that is my user as well.
But I guess you guys think I am just a Chinese national who picked the user Camlon in 2010, so that I could pretend to be the same user as on diskusjon.no?
Dangerous-boy can also never agree I'm not Chinese either, it's out of the realm of possibilities for a bulgarian not to be a pro-russian alcoholic who walks on top of buildings because the laws of gravity don't apply to him. Hell I'll even claim I'm philipino from now on it may be more interesting online.
I think the problem with HK protestors is that there's a huge section of them that are antagonistic towards not just the CCP, but people from Mainland China in general. This is a pretty grave misstep, because while the general populace of PRC cannot vote, they can be very vocal and have caused PRC government policies to soften or change direction in the past with enough obvious social pressure from the population.
Instead of trying to win a proportion of the Mainland Chinese, many of whom have been more vocal in their criticism of the CCP and whose influencers are of and can reach a much larger population than HKers themselves, on to their side with talk about ideals of what they want, what gets the most attention among Mainland Chinese is instead snide jabs about Mainland Chinese as people or outright hostility. It's frankly just an incredibly stupid thing to do, and unfortunately some Taiwanese are also going along the same lines as that.
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