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Ok, here is a good example of how God helps you go against the "natural" thing for the better of all involved.
If a woman was falling all over you in a very sexual and enticing way what would you do? Honestly! If she was beautiful and erotic...would you accept her invitation to the bedroom? Most men would...but it goes both ways with women as well.
The world says...go for it. She's asking for it, and you deserve it...you're only human after all. But God says no. Wait for marriage. How can this be better for all involved? I'll just give one possibility...but it could go in any number of directions. Say she's a drug addict, say she gets pregnant, say she keeps the baby and it's born with the addiction, say she goes after you for child support. Or...say none of that happens but she has contracted any number of diseases and gives it to you.
What I'm getting at is what man sees as moral and what God sees as moral are two different things. This is not to say that an atheist cannot be a moral person as I believe God does place a bit of that in each person naturally...to know right from wrong. I'm just saying that much of what is considered "good" by man's mind is not "good" from God's, but there is a higher reason for it.
Maybe I misunderstand your view on "natural", I am not entirely certain. But, if you look in nature almost all animals "decide" to mate with the individual that will best pass on their genetics. This can go for humans as well, it's just that we simply have more to look at it. If I had a blonde bombshell begging at my feet to sleep with her with the sole intention of having children, but she had issues such as drug abuse I would not consider her to be a good mate for me. Because of her issues, I could not see procreating with her because I would not see her as a fit mother. Keep in mind, that we are talking about the desire to procreate. If I saw it as just a sexual conquest than we are still doing the natural thing that drives us to procreate but we are doing it recreationally. The drive in all humans is to procreate (well at least I think all), but we are very picky about who we do it with, well at least the women are
Because we have advanced frames of mind we pick and choose our lovers and mates based on what attracts us the most including their personal issues. Normal animals don't distinguish between who's got issues and who doesn't HOWEVER they do distinguish between who is the most able to survive. This is very commonly seen in all forms as Elk and Deer fight one another, peacocks flare up their tails to show how beautiful they are, and wolves challenge the Alpha Male. These are all things done to show the female how adept they are at fighting another "enemy" off and giving the necessary traits to pass on to the mother's child. Really, when you boil it down, it's pretty obvious to see that men fight one another for a reason, and typically do dumb things to show off, because they are trying to impress. Whether we do it with that particular frame of mind or not is hard to say, but it's a natural instinct for almost all mammals to "show off" to try and get the female to mate with them. We aren't really that different when you really look at it.
I see the women on this forum laughing in their minds at the stupid things men do sometimes. But, I assure you it's a natural instinct.
Maybe I misunderstand your view on "natural", I am not entirely certain. But, if you look in nature almost all animals "decide" to mate with the individual that will best pass on their genetics. This can go for humans as well, it's just that we simply have more to look at it. If I had a blonde bombshell begging at my feet to sleep with her with the sole intention of having children, but she had issues such as drug abuse I would not consider her to be a good mate for me. Because of her issues, I could not see procreating with her because I would not see her as a fit mother. Keep in mind, that we are talking about the desire to procreate. If I saw it as just a sexual conquest than we are still doing the natural thing that drives us to procreate but we are doing it recreationally. The drive in all humans is to procreate (well at least I think all), but we are very picky about who we do it with, well at least the women are
Because we have advanced frames of mind we pick and choose our lovers and mates based on what attracts us the most including their personal issues. Normal animals don't distinguish between who's got issues and who doesn't HOWEVER they do distinguish between who is the most able to survive. This is very commonly seen in all forms as Elk and Deer fight one another, peacocks flare up their tails to show how beautiful they are, and wolves challenge the Alpha Male. These are all things done to show the female how adept they are at fighting another "enemy" off and giving the necessary traits to pass on to the mother's child. Really, when you boil it down, it's pretty obvious to see that men fight one another for a reason, and typically do dumb things to show off, because they are trying to impress. Whether we do it with that particular frame of mind or not is hard to say, but it's a natural instinct for almost all mammals to "show off" to try and get the female to mate with them. We aren't really that different when you really look at it.
I see the women on this forum laughing in their minds at the stupid things men do sometimes. But, I assure you it's a natural instinct.
Yes...I WAS LAUGHING MY HEAD OFF...just now at your response. LOL! I think most men see sex as recreational, even the procrational sex. The procreation is just a side benefit of the recreation. (grin)
and I'm just pointing out that there's no NEED for a god in the choices we make or the outcomes of those choices. If you feel you need one to guide your decision making, so be it.
and I'm just pointing out that there's no NEED for a god in the choices we make or the outcomes of those choices. If you feel you need one to guide your decision making, so be it.
Sure, but that depends on whose standards you are looking to. The world woud say (in the example) sleep with her...have fun...eat, drink, and be merry. But, if you hold yourself to a different standard, you cannot look to the world but to God.
I think we're saying the same thing only different.
Does a man need to know that sleeping around is a sin? Isn't it enough that he could figure it might be a dumb thing to do. He could come to that decision without having any sort of sin/no sin thought.
Man has a brain. He should be able to figure out what is practical or stupid, sensible or just plain crazy. He should be able to guide his actions by that without worrying about whether or not it's moral.
But, if you hold yourself to a different standard, you cannot look to the world but to God.
Or you could hold yourself to a different standard from any number of sources or an amalgam of such. Your religion is one of numerous options from which to form a standard.
So we're almost saying the same thing, the difference is you think there's only one alternative.
Or you could hold yourself to a different standard from any number of sources or an amalgam of such. Your religion is one of numerous options from which to form a standard.
So we're almost saying the same thing, the difference is you think there's only one alternative.
That's true...there are many standards to choose from.
That's true...there are many standards to choose from.
Is it not worth also taking into account that these rules were laid down very many years ago for what must have been a largely illiterate and relatively newly formed society that needed rules to live in harmony with each other.
What better for pagans to use pagan beliefs as a basis to erect a new religion with even more power than paganism, by the addition of the invention of a "life hearafter".
This invention is laid at the foot of an Egyption Pharaoh apparently.
Sorry I have taken so long to write around here, but the powers that be thought I should take some time away from here
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Could you tell me why atheists and agnostics like to hang around the Religion forum? Do they feel it's their responsibility to educate Christians?
Partly, yes. There are some things we feel you don't question which you should. I'm not talking about whether there's a god, I mean contradictions in your bible, church dogma apart from the bible, and other things. Also, there are a lot of lies that get circulated in your circles and are predisposition to truth, facts and evidence just get us all riled up that we have to dispel them like Josephus, the shroud, carbon dating, etc.
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Do atheists like to hang around Christians in their real lives or do they stick to others with their same lack of belief?
That's up to the individual. Some only feel comfortable around others like themselves. Some prefer the company of those who are different. Some simply don't care
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Are they hoping (even subconsciously) that one of the Christians will say something so profound and so convincing that they'll become believers?
No. There's nothing you could say. Maybe if you could show us some proof, then we'd join the choir.
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What do you personally think becomes of souls at our earthly passing?
There are no souls. We die. The end.
We really don't see what your fascination with death is. Life is now, and the fact that it's finite makes it quite precious. Suggesting that it'll never end devalues it.
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Why does there seem to be SOME Atheists that are very civil and just simply DO NOT BELIEVE in God...Whereas the others tend to express such HATRED for God?
I don't know, why are some xtians happy to simply keep their faith whereas others need to impose it on others? I'd be willing to bet that if everyone could manage to keep their faith to themselves like Amish, there'd be almost no "angry atheists".
Btw, no atheist is angry at god since there is no god. We're not even angry at religion. We're angry at religious people doing things to us and the rest of the world because of their beliefs.
Yes...I WAS LAUGHING MY HEAD OFF...just now at your response. LOL! I think most men see sex as recreational, even the procrational sex. The procreation is just a side benefit of the recreation. (grin)
Sooner or later Jazzed, at a certain age (different for each and all) men may be freed of this burden, and they then, without Gods help, can begin to live and love.
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