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That sounds like a rhetorical trick to me, but I may be wrong. If we replace"Time" with "a sequence of events" (which is all we use the term to refer to, having frames of reference such as earthly rotation and human lifestpans) then Jimmie's comment seems to have validity.
Didn't mean that. What I meant was, a creator (of some type) is logical. The alternative is not.
Someone had to create the creator then. SO then who did that? Your logic makes no sense. You are just using religion to explain things you don't understand. Religion was created to help humans explain things they don't understand. So your just saying "I don't understand where the universe came from" and then inserting God in there.
Technically the universe really is nothing because its total energy is = 0. There are equal amounts of matter and anti matter that cancel each other out. Its like sating 1 + (-1) = 0. So does 1 really exist? Gravity is also a negative energy that cancels out the mass of the objects that create it. For example. It takes enormous energy to remove a rock from earths gravitational pull. All things above you that you don't understand.
Someone had to create the creator then. SO then who did that? Your logic makes no sense. You are just using religion to explain things you don't understand. Religion was created to help humans explain things they don't understand. So your just saying "I don't understand where the universe came from" and then inserting God in there.
Technically the universe really is nothing because its total energy is = 0. There are equal amounts of matter and anti matter that cancel each other out. Its like sating 1 + (-1) = 0. So does 1 really exist? Gravity is also a negative energy that cancels out the mass of the objects that create it. For example. It takes enormous energy to remove a rock from earths gravitational pull. All things above you that you don't understand.
^ Exactly. ^ I've always wondered that too. Even as a "believing" little child I wondered that. If it's illogical that something can come from nothing rather than being created, Jimmie, then if the God of the Bible exists, what created it? After all, using this argument, it's impossible that God wasn't created, and literally just sprung up, happened, occurred, etc. It's equally impossible, still going by your logic, that God "just always existed" and "wasn't created at all" (the typical reasoning for the existence of God, at least overall from believers I've met).
If the answer is the standard "nothing created God...God always existed" and you can believe that, why then could you NOT believe "nothing created the universe...the universe always existed"?
Can't really have it both ways, if logic is the issue getting in the way here.
If the answer is "I BELIEVE nothing created God, God always existed, and yes, that's possible," then you can not argue that it's impossible that the universe did not always exist and/or that nothing created it because it is "illogical that something could come from nothing".
The phrase, "must have" indicates what your confirmation bias is, and that you are mounting what is most fundamentally an argument from incredulity. There is no "must have".
The only thing that gives meaning to the word "before" is "time". If there was no time, then there was no "before".
As creatures of time it is hard to imagine, so much so that we reflexively assume cause and effect, story arc and arrow of time where they may not have existed, or existed in a form we wouldn't recognize. Mathematical models point to this sort of weirdness approaching the BB however, much less prior to it ... assuming there WAS a "prior".
At this time no one can honestly say there was or wasn't "something before", much less that this something was a creator, or the nature of that creator. So the only intellectually honest position is to refrain from hypotheticals, particularly unfalsifiable ones (other than as admitted recreation perhaps) until such time as there are sufficient confirmed facts to speculate intelligently about it.
Someone had to create the creator then. SO then who did that? Your logic makes no sense. You are just using religion to explain things you don't understand. Religion was created to help humans explain things they don't understand. So your just saying "I don't understand where the universe came from" and then inserting God in there.
Technically the universe really is nothing because its total energy is = 0. There are equal amounts of matter and anti matter that cancel each other out. Its like sating 1 + (-1) = 0. So does 1 really exist? Gravity is also a negative energy that cancels out the mass of the objects that create it. For example. It takes enormous energy to remove a rock from earths gravitational pull. All things above you that you don't understand.
A creator is the only logical conclusion, at this point. Everything has a source. To say "nothing" sparked the universe is nonsensical. Your anti-religion bias won't allow you to see this.
I'm an agnostic, so I'll live my day to day existence and when THAT time comes, whatever happens will. Since I don't remember any prior life, I have no proof anything will occur when THAT time arrives other than decomposing. I choose to play the game of life, so I don't consider it sad. I've done enough in my life already, had enough good and bad times already, to say my "life" has been full. 2 Children, 2 Grandchildren - been on a few cruises and traveled. Have a house, cars, camper, canoe/kayak. I enjoy running and cycling. It's life, something I didn't choose to join but just appeared.
^ Exactly. ^ I've always wondered that too. Even as a "believing" little child I wondered that. If it's illogical that something can come from nothing rather than being created, Jimmie, then if the God of the Bible exists, what created it? After all, using this argument, it's impossible that God wasn't created, and literally just sprung up, happened, occurred, etc. It's equally impossible, still going by your logic, that God "just always existed" and "wasn't created at all" (the typical reasoning for the existence of God, at least overall from believers I've met).
If the answer is the standard "nothing created God...God always existed" and you can believe that, why then could you NOT believe "nothing created the universe...the universe always existed"?
Can't really have it both ways, if logic is the issue getting in the way here.
If the answer is "I BELIEVE nothing created God, God always existed, and yes, that's possible," then you can not argue that it's impossible that the universe did not always exist and/or that nothing created it because it is "illogical that something could come from nothing".
You really think "nothing" makes more sense than a creator (of some sort)? Seriously?
If your response to everyone is just going to be "goddunnit" until they can explain life's greatest questions, then the conversation becomes pointless.
Rather than ask the same question over and over to billions of people until someone gives you an answer you like....regardless of whether they are in a position to know such things....why not try to research the best scientific hypotheses out there? There are hypotheses like multiverse, cyclical big bang/big crunch, spontaneous emergence, and various others. Google them.
If your response to everyone is just going to be "goddunnit" until they can explain life's greatest questions, then the conversation becomes pointless.
Rather than ask the same question over and over to billions of people until someone gives you an answer you like....regardless of whether they are in a position to know such things....why not try to research the best scientific hypotheses out there? There are hypotheses like multiverse, cyclical big bang/big crunch, spontaneous emergence, and various others. Google them.
I enjoy researching these things, but still, a creator (of some sort) makes sense.
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