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Just to clear up with Julian and others, I did not state that atheists had a moral obligations, I stated that citizens had that obligations. However Julian and others make any comment a religious ones so as to attack other posters. If you see immoral acts being done in your community and keep quiet, who else do you expect to oppose it?
All morality is relative and there is nothing that implies an atheist is obligated to be morally upright. If an atheist happens to very morally upright it is just an archetype that exists in the collective subconscious (see Jung).
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And why argue if Mu slims in other countries are worse than the Christians of your own? Totally off topic and an approach to derail another thread. And not everything being done that strikes me as immoral involves any particular religion.
Yeah, you are right. This is not about how Muslims treat women. However, I was trying to indicate Phet that 3rd wave feminism puts down Western men for the way the treat women and gives a pass to Muslim men. That contradiction can only be explained with an irrational belief system.
All morality is relative and there is nothing that implies an atheist is obligated to be morally upright. If an atheist happens to very morally upright it is just an archetype that exists in the collective subconscious (see Jung).
Yeah, you are right. This is not about how Muslims treat women. However, I was trying to indicate Phet that 3rd wave feminism puts down Western men for the way the treat women and gives a pass to Muslim men. That contradiction can only be explained with an irrational belief system.
I think that's a very good point. We are at a point where we can raise such issues, but our past AND our present are not sterling. So we need to be careful how we present the issues.
I categorically reject your concern for the past, phet. There is no one alive today who need be concerned about or feel the least bit responsible for what happened in a past they are not a part of, period. That is a bogus and insidious guilt trip with no logical end or recourse in sight. What we should and can concern ourselves with is what is going on today.
I categorically reject your concern for the past, phet. There is no one alive today who need be concerned about or feel the least bit responsible for what happened in a past they are not a part of, period. That is a bogus and insidious guilt trip with no logical end or recourse in sight. What we should and can concern ourselves with is what is going on today.
He didn't say anything about feeling responsible for past problems. The responsibility lies in correcting the problem now. This brings us back to moral responsibility. Do I have a moral responsibility to stick my boot up Julian's ass? No, I don't believe I do.
I categorically reject your concern for the past, phet. There is no one alive today who need be concerned about or feel the least bit responsible for what happened in a past they are not a part of, period. That is a bogus and insidious guilt trip with no logical end or recourse in sight. What we should and can concern ourselves with is what is going on today.
The fact that Phet and others are concerned about the past 24/7 is illogical. However, it is a magnificent preaching tool from the altar. It generates the Amen the preacher wants to hear.
All morality is relative and there is nothing that implies an atheist is obligated to be morally upright. If an atheist happens to very morally upright it is just an archetype that exists in the collective subconscious (see Jung).
Yeah, you are right. This is not about how Muslims treat women. However, I was trying to indicate Phet that 3rd wave feminism puts down Western men for the way the treat women and gives a pass to Muslim men. That contradiction can only be explained with an irrational belief system.
For the third time I was speaking about obligations of citizens not atheists. If we as citizens don't care about morality be prepared to live in a immoral or amoral society.
As to your second paragraph, you are sterotyping as well as comparing different cultures and saying they are religions. Do you know the difference between how Christian men treat women in Nigeria, Lebanon or India compared to Christian men in those countries? I know I don't feel the least bit confident that I can answer. You are missing the explanation that criticism of Christians men might be not that they are Christians but that their behavior is worse than their fellow citizens and not comparing them to men in different cultures. How do Christians in Uganda treat women worse than Muslims in Uganda do? Again that is not what you are interested because it doesn't fit your narrative. Female genital mutilation is more common in several Christian nations on North Africa than it is in most of the Islam World not in Northern Africa. Moral outrage to FGM should be against the practice and not against either religion.
And I am expressing how I view our responsibilities in a civil society. I have zero interest in reading Jung. Maybe 50 years ago but not now. Did Jung have anything to say about concern for the watershed my drinking water comes from being at risk for short term profit gain. Or politicans treating drug users or the disabled poorly? Or attacks on people of colour?
No one is obligated (nor universally measured) to be morally upright (and people imply, not things).
'Morally upright' as measured by what standard code (as obviously there will be variation, particularly as an atheist).
I guess we have to use words to discuss the issue, but ultimately there is no good or evil. Everything is relative. The goodness of the Atheists comes from the Christian archetype (if they live in a Western nation) that resides in the collective subconscious.
He didn't say anything about feeling responsible for past problems. The responsibility lies in correcting the problem now. This brings us back to moral responsibility. Do I have a moral responsibility to stick my boot up Julian's ass? No, I don't believe I do.
I told Mystic some time ago that I would not be reading his posts any longer. He is wasting his time and effort.
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