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The problem is the assumption that religion taught moral and ethical behavior. It may have informed us what it considered moral but it did not teach it. All humans, religious or not, have pushed the boundaries on what is ethical and moral.
Right now what is being debated is culture, a.k.a. preference on how the world should be rather than what it actually is.
One more point: If you read the writings of early Christianity in the first five -8 centuries AD there is strong teaching of moral values. I suggest you read the Didache written in the 2nd century. There was a huge SJW current where the poor were exalted .
I had a look at that article. I can see why Julian likes it, what it describes as Social Justice dogma are straw men versions of the actual arguments.
I presume rational, philosophical arguments for why social justice is a good thing is beyond Julian, a level 1 philosopherbabbler.
Thank you for making me laugh out loud in the first half hour of my waking day. That's a rarity!
Julian doesn't like it much when people put labels on other people, and yet Julian puts labels on people frequently. For example, there have been MANY times when Julian has called some of us "Level 1 atheists", and I believe he has used the term "rookie atheists", as well. Just now I Googled "Levels Of Atheism". After a quick perusal I didn't find that particular classification scheme, but I did find half-a-dozen different schemes for classifying atheists. But guess what -- I don't care if I'm labeled an atheist because I am an atheist. I don't care if I'm labeled a certain level of atheist or have some descriptor attached to the term atheist in my case...as long as it's accurate.
He has used the label "social justice warriors" multiple times. I see it as a compliment for one simple reason -- I think social justice is a good thing. I think advocating for social justice is a good thing. In terms of social justice, I see status quo thinking as a bad thing.
Of course, anything can be taken too far. Atheism can be taken too far. I hardly think that posting on this internet forum is taking atheism too far. I don't think that speaking out about the need for religionists to control themselves and not attempt to involve non-religionists into their ranks is extreme. I haven't burned down any churches, nor have I advocated anyone else should. I haven't crucified any christians, not have I advocated that anyone else should. I haven't picketed. I haven't sent our mailers. I haven't stood on any street corners with pamphlets. What have I actually done -- in real life AND in this forum, when religionists have approached me/us, I have talked back. Gasp!
So to Julian, here's what I think you need to do if you're going to slap the level 1 atheist label onto me and others. Post your classification system. I wanna make sure you've put the correct label onto me. I want to know exactly what levels 1, 2, 3, and so forth consist of. I wanna graduate to the most appropriate level for me.
Yes, this extremism is a problem when it occurs. My problem is when people generalize as if SJWs or feminists all think alike. This is usually either intellectual idleness or because the people making the arguments are the people causing the inequality and do not want to change the status quo.
Which brings us back to atheist morality, because it does not exist. There is only morality, and only when we realize why we are moral can we address how to resolve moral problems such as same sex toilets.
Yes, and I'll give you a good example of this: I support blm. I do not support BLM. And yes, my support of blm is based on my moral obligations as an atheist.
If all humans push the boundaries on what is moral or not, then how does religion teach morals?
by teaching do this, don't do this.
examples: it is very nebulous to say "be generous and help others out"
it is a specific teaching "give 10% minimum, and up to 30% maximum of your take home pay."
it is nebulous to say "be kind to others"
it is a specific teaching to say "don't gossip and here is a list of the specific damage and harm that it causes and why"
those are some concrete examples of the kinds of things that religion teaches in moral and ethical behavior.
by teaching do this, don't do this.
examples: it is very nebulous to say "be generous and help others out"
it is a specific teaching "give 10% minimum, and up to 30% maximum of your take home pay."
it is nebulous to say "be kind to others"
it is a specific teaching to say "don't gossip and here is a list of the specific damage and harm that it causes and why"
those are some concrete examples of the kinds of things that religion teaches in moral and ethical behavior.
I agree that is teaching. That is not the teaching I received while learning religion. Does that make the way I was taught immoral?
I had a look at that article. I can see why Julian likes it, what it describes as Social Justice dogma are straw men versions of the actual arguments.
I presume rational, philosophical arguments for why social justice is a good thing is beyond Julian, a level 1 philosopherbabbler.
The article comes from an atheist website. The are well equipped to recognize the toxicity of religion. What is really astounding that you are surprised? However, if you are an SJW I would not expect you to be conscious of the cultish behavior and all established tenets. Some of the tenets demonstrate a disconnect with reality which is the hallmark of a cult.
Yes, and I'll give you a good example of this: I support blm. I do not support BLM. And yes, my support of blm is based on my moral obligations as an atheist.
You are more concerned with the deaths of the few than the deaths of the many. That is a symptom of cultish behavior.
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