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yet you and Trans, for instance, express the view there is such a thing as "cultural Buddhism."
surely then there is such a thing as "cultural Catholicism."
do you label those who engage in "cultural Buddhism" to be "dishonest" ?
either they are both acceptable, or they are both "dishonest."
cultural Cathollicism and cultural Buddhism.
First of all, it depends on the actions of the individual.
But let's go back to what Julian does. He admits he doesn't believe in god, yet he goes and accepts the sacraments. That's the dishonest part. Since he says he participates in mass, I presume he says the creed, and that begins, "We believe in one god, the father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is seen and unseen". EXCEPT he says he doesn't believe in god. That's the dishonesty part.
Since becoming a Buddhist and an atheist, I will sometimes go to either catholic mass or a protestant service. I'll sit and think about things, listen to and consider the homily/sermon. But when it comes to things like the creed or communion, I just sit or stand silently.
That is very different than being a "lazy christian" or a "lazy Buddhist". I know lots of lazy christians and lots of lazy Buddhists. I don't see laziness to be the same thing as being dishonest. A majority of christians I have known don't go to church regularly. A majority of Buddhists I have known do not go to temple regularly.
First of all, it depends on the actions of the individual. But let's go back to what Julian does. He admits he doesn't believe in god, yet he goes and accepts the sacraments. That's the dishonest part. Since he says he participates in mass, I presume he says the creed, and that begins, "We believe in one god, the father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is seen and unseen". EXCEPT he says he doesn't believe in god. That's the dishonesty part. Since becoming a Buddhist and an atheist, I will sometimes go to either catholic mass or a protestant service. I'll sit and think about things, listen to and consider the homily/sermon. But when it comes to things like the creed or communion, I just sit or stand silently. That is very different than being a "lazy christian" or a "lazy Buddhist". I know lots of lazy christians and lots of lazy Buddhists. I don't see laziness to be the same thing as being dishonest. A majority of christians I have known don't go to church regularly. A majority of Buddhists I have known do not go to temple regularly.
if "cultural buddhism" is acceptable, then so is "cultural catholicism."
if one is "dishonest" then they both are.
the more convoluted the long and winding explanations become (as above), the more apparent the double standard is.
They live in echo chambers where other views are immediately shut down. They also have massive confirmation bias and can only process information that supports the position they have. However, the biggest problem is our immense proclivity to tribalism, the US versus THEM mindset is still with us. Each side has a reason to avoid dealing with a valid point. The reason is often irrational, but it works for them. You will also find that many in some cults refuse to have a dialogue where there is no acrimony. Why? Acrimony and anger are useful tools to walk away or declare a moral victory. Others in these groups have low self esteem and cannot accept what looks like a defeat while having a philosophical argument.
I am interested in observing the psychological dynamics at play on this forum and I find you have a good big-picture view of what’s going on here.
It’s clearly an emotional outlet for many and not a place for true discussion. It’s a waste of time having an intellectual argument with someone whose goal is to argue emotionally, for cathartic reasons. An opportunity for self-righteous indignation often takes precedence over acknowledging a truth.
First of all, it depends on the actions of the individual.
But let's go back to what Julian does. He admits he doesn't believe in god, yet he goes and accepts the sacraments. That's the dishonest part. Since he says he participates in mass, I presume he says the creed, and that begins, "We believe in one god, the father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is seen and unseen". EXCEPT he says he doesn't believe in god. That's the dishonesty part.
Since becoming a Buddhist and an atheist, I will sometimes go to either catholic mass or a protestant service. I'll sit and think about things, listen to and consider the homily/sermon. But when it comes to things like the creed or communion, I just sit or stand silently.
That is very different than being a "lazy christian" or a "lazy Buddhist". I know lots of lazy christians and lots of lazy Buddhists. I don't see laziness to be the same thing as being dishonest. A majority of christians I have known don't go to church regularly. A majority of Buddhists I have known do not go to temple regularly.
I have said those things simply because I was bored ...
the difference phet is that you have emotional response to saying it. I, and presumably he, don't.
First of all, it depends on the actions of the individual.
Quote:
But let's go back to what Julian does. He admits he doesn't believe in god, yet he goes and accepts the sacraments. That's the dishonest part. Since he says he participates in mass, I presume he says the creed, and that begins, "We believe in one god, the father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is seen and unseen". EXCEPT he says he doesn't believe in god. That's the dishonesty part.
Phet: I have done that for my entire life. It is a freaking ritual and nothing else. And yes, it is dishonest if there was a God. However, there is no God.
Quote:
Since becoming a Buddhist and an atheist, I will sometimes go to either catholic mass or a protestant service. I'll sit and think about things, listen to and consider the homily/sermon. But when it comes to things like the creed or communion, I just sit or stand silently.
I don't Phet. I take communion and even kneel and genuflect. I enjoy history and traditions. I enjoy a good Schubert Ave Maria. I am no different than Richard Dawkins who very much acknowledges the importance of Christianity in the history of the British isles. Catholicism is part of who I am as a person.
Quote:
That is very different than being a "lazy christian" or a "lazy Buddhist". I know lots of lazy christians and lots of lazy Buddhists. I don't see laziness to be the same thing as being dishonest. A majority of christians I have known don't go to church regularly. A majority of Buddhists I have known do not go to temple regularly.
Yes, Phet! I am dishonest with myself. I fake an orgasm when I take communion. Oops, i hope the forum members realize that was hyperbole, a figure of speech.
it is exactly what is described as "cultural Buddhism" by several atheists on CD who claim it is perfectly acceptable.
cut to the chase. it's fine for some to claim "cultural Buddhism"
but "dishonest" for others to have "cultural Catholicism."
plain and simple. pure double standard.
if he claims cultural Catholicism is "dishonest" then so too is "cultural Buddhism."
Phet: I have done that for my entire life. It is a freaking ritual and nothing else. And yes, it is dishonest if there was a God. However, there is no God.
I don't Phet. I take communion and even kneel and genuflect. I enjoy history and traditions. I enjoy a good Schubert Ave Maria. I am no different than Richard Dawkins who very much acknowledges the importance of Christianity in the history of the British isles. Catholicism is part of who I am as a person.
Yes, Phet! I am dishonest with myself. I fake an orgasm when I take communion. Oops, i hope the forum members realize that was hyperbole, a figure of speech.
But don't others observe you participating in those sacraments, and saying those words? Isn't it reasonable they would conclude you are declaring yourself to be a believer? Isn't that a requirement to take communion in the first place?
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