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I'd love to see my son break that dark matter challenge and win the Noble prize. Are we to say "Maybe Dark Matter is GOd?" no We say that dark matter likely exists and likely causes a dark halo in a collider, but so far, we have not the technology to observe or prove it. And so what if it does not exist? If science points to the non-existence of it, then we will move on.
Regarding dark matter. We are in the same shoes as Saint Thomas of Aquina in the 12th century when he sort of described the Big Bang to prove the existence of God. He likely got the idea from Aristotle.
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And if God does not exist? Well, most of the known universe points to the non-existence of God, we have no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God, but religious people will continue to believe and worship such anyway.
Whether God is real or not is a moot point. What has made a difference in world history is the concept of a God at a time when there was no science.
In the end atheism is an absolutist position that sees these issues as black or white. Others use atheism to seek some sort of goofy enlightenment. They forget that in the past deeply religious people had the abilities to make great scientific discoveries. Isaac Newton contemplated the priesthood and he also believed in alchemy.
So if I would start off referencing that a belief in God or gods has likely been part of the human experience for as long as humans have had self awareness.
The operative word here is 'likely'.
There is no way of knowing what people believed in the early days of humanity before we learned to communicate with drawing, language and writing. We have no actual way of knowing if people believed in anything. We have no control group so to speak.
Certainly in the early days of human history, polytheism or a belief in many gods was the common theme throughout Roman, Greek, Pagan and almost all other cultures up until the Bronze age. Monotheism is relatively recent in the grand scheme of things.
Sadly it has become clear to me in recent years and particularly in recent months, that belief in god is not actually the disappointing thing, but humans seemingly infinite capacity to believe any and all absolute unadulterated nonsense and garbage they are told, despite glaringly obvious evidence to the contrary.
I've never been more disappointed in humanity. It feels like we have barely advanced at all since the Bronze age. If I had written this post a few years ago I'd have probably had a different response. Sadly, recent events have had a permanent impact on my view of humanity.
We are easily led and easily influenced and most of us lack the capacity to think for ourselves.
So in answer to the question, yes I think it is likely that humans have believed in nonsense for millennia.
And if God does not exist? Well, most of the known universe points to the non-existence of God, we have no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God, but religious people will continue to believe and worship such anyway.
You are mixing up two ideas and over generalizing to me. One is the idea of worship. That's emotional and doesn't do anything for what is there or what is not there.
The other is what do most people believe. Most people, due to science and commonsense, believe that there is some thing there. Some atheist seem to have to come up with very convoluted logic to deny that any thing is there.
I think of apologetics as cherry picking. Cherry pick the beliefs that have science and leave the ones that don't. "deny everything to help social change" is a whole nother ball of wax that seriously confuses emotional need with the realities of the situation.
This is an excellent perspective. I have been telling forum members that tribalism and believing in deities was a huge component of human evolution. And yet the rookie atheists get off on making fun of allegoric bible passages or put down the role on Christianity in Western Civilization. Your average Atheists is not an atheist, they are simply anti-religion types.
And based on that history of religion -- a lot of which you seem to have forgotten or make excuses for -- it may be very valid to be anti-religion.
The same can be said for how you conveniently some forget about the good and make excuses for only looking looking at the bad half -- it may be very valid to be freedom of religion.
In fact, based on all the information, freedom of religion trounces anti-religion to the point of making anti-religion an irrational position.
But in the end you are right. if we ignore certain things, anti-religion can be valid. I guess.
Refuting your atheist default apologetic is NOT a derail, Harry. Get over it and try to learn something. You should also try thinking beyond your atheist-proscribed boundaries.
And based on that history of religion -- a lot of which you seem to have forgotten or make excuses for -- it may be very valid to be anti-religion.
Religion is one thing.
Whether God is real or not is something else. New atheists tend to confuse these two.
A believe in a deity was an integral part of human evolution. Nowadays the deity is replaced by non deity causes. Sadly, the same irrational fervor persists.
Religion is one thing.
Whether God is real or not is something else. New atheists tend to confuse these two.
A believe in a deity was an integral part of human evolution. Nowadays the deity is replaced by non deity causes. Sadly, the same irrational fervor persists.
Don't confuse and try to now change the topic I was responding to, which was your statement: "Your average Atheists is not an atheist, they are simply anti-religion types". And my response was: "And based on that history of religion -- a lot of which you seem to have forgotten or make excuses for -- it may be very valid to be anti-religion".
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