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Simple answer. No! You would have been raped. I think it was in the UAE a foreign woman was raped and went to report it and was arrested for adultery. Are there any words to describe what kind of society that would even think about doing that let alone actually laying those charges?
At the same time getting drunk would have placed you into a more vulnerable position of getting raped. Having said that getting drunk is no crime and raping a drunk woman in the situation as you laid it out is even more despicable as they deliberately set up those conditions . And doing it to a friend shows they don't know the meanings of the words sex or friends.
I would never have hosted or attended a situation such as the one you described as a man. If it was my place you would not have experienced anything past the going to sleep in the spare room.
But the truth is some men are pigs and women must, for their own safety, behave much more responsible than us men. After having said all this you would bare Zero responsibility being raped and being drunk yourself should not lessen their burden or lessen their sentence.
One disgusting excuse society has about women just asking for it the way they dress. Even without data I'd bet that more women are raped wearing a burka than are raped at a nudist colony. And there is never an excuse to beat a women or to grab a part of her anatomy as she walks by.
The joke of a sentence that Brock Turner was given just shows how unfair society still is. If he had been a black man or a poor white man he might if received the entered he deserved but being an elite athlete he was basically given permission to go out and rape as wanted.
They were predators, not pigs. I was attempting to show how Dawkins's remark telling women they shouldn't get drunk if they want to be in a position to testify about what happened to them can be perceived.
I don't know about that. I mean, I have never been there, but I work for a Pakistani husband and wife sometimes, engineers who own their own firm, and as mentioned on one of these threads recently, I've met a number of people in the Pakistani engineering community, and these engineers are not suppressed women.
Of course, they are in the USA, but my male boss has shown me pictures of his 95-year-old mother who is still in Pakistan, and in one of the pictures she is with his niece and her baby, and while the mother wears a head scarf, the younger woman does not. I don't think that would even be allowed in Afghanistan, where the women are covered from head to toe in blue burqas.
Plus in Afghanistan the girls have to fight to go to school. Remember Malala, that kid who was shot in the head on the school bus. My female boss went to a private school (called St. Paul's, a holdover from British colony days) and then got her initial engineering degree in Karachi.
It may well vary throughout Pakistan, though, from urban to rural areas. I don't know enough about it to say.
Iran was also more open for women before the Ayatollah.
It's unlikely that it would be easy for anyone in any of these countries to declare that they are an atheist, though.
The Pakistanis I have known through my son are sort of all along the spectrum...but then again they all live here in the States. I do remember when I was once invited to an all-Pakistani, large party, only the men talked with me.
They were predators, not pigs. I was attempting to show how Dawkins's remark telling women they shouldn't get drunk if they want to be in a position to testify about what happened to them can be perceived.
I guess I don't understand if he was giving advice because of how things actually are or making a judgment about who is to blame.
Yes predator described them better than pig.
Not getting drunk unless you have someone you trust that can protect you is advice I'd give my daughter or grandaughters. Same as always wear a Helmut on a bike. Obviously your friend was not a friend. He and his friends were the only ones who did something wrong.
The Pakistanis I have known through my son are sort of all along the spectrum...but then again they all live here in the States. I do remember when I was once invited to an all-Pakistani, large party, only the men talked with me.
I'm going mostly from interviews amongst professors working and living thete now. Most of the ones I've know have been here since prior to the fundamentalists getting so influential.
I should have written that Late Great probably thinks I am a sexist and woman molester now, but I agree with everything you said. The fact is that I treat women with respect and don't get pushy. I have probably missed out on a few encounters because I don't and they expected me to make the move. So I do get a bit put off discussing this stuff. As well as it not really being the topic, except where it is on how religion protects women - or not.
I think that's a bingo. While Jesus (as Christ) must be a central part of Christianity or it wouldn't seem to me to BE Christianity, some may indeed - it seems to be a general spirituality idea that is going around - that it is all the same god but each religion approaches it in its' own way.
He doesn't fully understand what I'm saying. At least he's not attacking the woman in my scenario the way Dawkins did by saying if you want to be in a position to testify don't get drunk. I don't think your all that unusual especially considering how old you are. That first woman tried to explain something that was creepy to her and a lot of women should have been listened to and not attacked with "you don't have it so bad."
I guess I don't understand if he was giving advice because of how things actually are or making a judgment about who is to blame.
Yes predator described them better than pig.
Not getting drunk unless you have someone you trust that can protect you is advice I'd give my daughter or grandaughters. Same as always wear a Helmut on a bike. Obviously your friend was not a friend. He and his friends were the only ones who did something wrong.
Dawkins said women who get drunk should not be able to testify about their attacker. Do you think that's an OK thing to say?
He doesn't fully understand what I'm saying. At least he's not attacking the woman in my scenario the way Dawkins did by saying if you want to be in a position to testify don't get drunk. I don't think your all that unusual especially considering how old you are. That first woman tried to explain something that was creepy to her and a lot of women should have been listened to and not attacked with "you don't have it so bad."
I fully agree. Every woman should be heard. Nothing should be brushed off as "others had it worse"
Dawkins said women who get drunk should not be able to testify about their attacker. Do you think that's an OK thing to say?
If that is what he said then he is 100% wrong. I guess I misunderstood what he had said.
A drunk naked woman should be able to walk through a room of men without being groped, assult ed or raped. And if she was raped she has the same rights to testify as a woman raped in her own locked home while wearing flannel pajamas.
The only thing you ended up doing wrong in your situation was trusting your so called friend. You should have been perfectly safe in his spare room. And Dawkins must not understand that ladies like to have fun too.
I am not sure it's a generational thing though as I may be even older than Dawkins however I grew up in a small farming community where seeing impaired girls and women was not totally unknown. My own father was a sexist , grew up in a city and probably would have agreed , at least partially, with Dawkins.
If that is what he said then he is 100% wrong. I guess I misunderstood what he had said.
A drunk naked woman should be able to walk through a room of men without being groped, assult ed or raped. And if she was raped she has the same rights to testify as a woman raped in her own locked home while wearing flannel pajamas.
The only thing you ended up doing wrong in your situation was trusting your so called friend. You should have been perfectly safe in his spare room. And Dawkins must not understand that ladies like to have fun too.
I am not sure it's a generational thing though as I may be even older than Dawkins however I grew up in a small farming community where seeing impaired girls and women was not totally unknown. My own father was a sexist , grew up in a city and probably would have agreed , at least partially, with Dawkins.
I expected more people to be against this. I was wondering if they are aware of what was actually said before they dismissed it as nothing.
My friend didn't do anything wrong. We were all just sitting there as a group. There was no need to think any of us were in danger. If they had been there to murder someone instead of rape someone it would have been the same. Criminals stalk their prey and look for opportunities.
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