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Christmas is just another day. Just as you said earlier that you find it odd that an atheist would be lamenting the commercialization of Xmas (which was a strawman in that I never made that actual claim), so too do I find it odd that any atheist should care about how any other atheist should spend a day that is ultimately devoid of any special significance. I'm currently hanging out at the sportsbook, surrounded by other regulars, and it's fun. Inconceivable I know to someone who lacks the imagination required to appreciate that others may have different preferences than yourself
"Merry Mithras" to you and all the other gamblers out there.
I thought you were an atheist? I can’t remember the last time I went to a church service, other than a funeral for my (ex) girlfriend’s sister.
I am I am also an Aestheticist Meaning I find Inspiration in Beauty,, and the particular service we attend is beautiful. Like attending a Symphony, a work of art, a play....a performance that brings about the best musicians, readers, voices all inside splendid architecture.
AS I pointed out we attended an opera recently in which Isis and Osirus were characters. Wile I do not believe in the existence of those deities, I did enjoy the story Likewise, I do not believe the Biblical Nativity story to be anything other than a myth, but it makes for a great story. Like Antigone. Or the Hamlet. Or Casablanca......
One does not have to believe in everything one sees to be able to enjoy the beauty of the presentation, the art form around it...
Last edited by LargeKingCat; 12-26-2023 at 04:44 PM..
I am I am also an Aestheticist Meaning I find Inspiration in Beauty,, and the particular service we attend is beautiful. Like attending a Symphony, a work of art, a play....a performance that brings about the best musicians, readers, voices all inside splendid architecture.
AS I pointed out we attended an opera recently in which Isis and Osirus were characters. Wile I do not believe in the existence of those deities, I did enjoy the story Likewise, I do not believe the Biblical Nativity story to be anything other than a myth, but it makes for a great story. Like Antigone. Or the Hamlet. Or Casablanca......
One does not have to believe in everything one sees to be able to enjoy the beauty of the presentation, the art form around it...
Since we don’t believe the story/message, I don’t see the point (or the beauty) - but that’s me. Happy New Year!
There was once a study done, several NFL seasons ago, which concluded that the average NFL game features about 11 minutes of actual gameplay over the course of around three hours of time. I remember reading this in a USA Today article online; I'm sure it's Googleable. Since reading that article, I've seen estimates revised upwards to 13 or 14 minutes. Regardless, that's at least 2 hours and 45 minutes of downtime during a three hour span. Contrast that with the sport I've played my entire life, soccer, which has negligible downtime during ninety minutes of scheduled time; your typical soccer game might feature 90 actual minutes of the ball being in play during less than two hours of 'real time'. Say what you will about the merits of watching soccer, but from a player's perspective, the constantly changing game states are a real asset to someone with an active mind such as myself. With football (American football), boredom while spectating is a real possibility. You know what solves that problem? Livebetting multiple games at once. At the end of a given NFL Sunday that I've spent at the casino, I may have 40 betting tickets accumulated. Way more fun than passively watching even an entertaining team like the Bills or Niners. Casinos can in fact be depressing but I'm desensitized to that by now given all the time I've spent in them as a poker enthusiast turned professional player. Heading there now....
Interesting comment. To me anyway, because I have discussed this sort of thing many times over my many sports-watching years...
In particular, most recently, I've mentioned to others how much I have enjoyed and taken advantage of the game highlights you can watch on YouTube. Typically around 15 minutes long, they allow me to catch up on what's happening with other games/teams as compared to the old days when I might manage to watch just the 9r games, for example, and pass on the other games. Whether it be actual play time or the highlights, you are right to note the small percentage of time really worth watching as compared to the whole game, but there is something about watching even the plays that don't make the highlights too. Depends on what kind of fan you are. Average actual play time of an NFL game is about 18 minutes in any case, but there is all the time devoted to replays that I enjoy watching too. Another not-so-recent development is the ability to record the games quite easily, which I do on a regular basis for two reasons; one, to avoid having to wait through the commercials. I just zip right through the amazing number of commercials. Two, my wife is not a big sports fan, so we'll typically enjoy whatever entertainment together until she decides to call it a night. That's when I'll watch my recording of the game. After making sure I haven't caught any news about the game until then.
As for soccer. Funny your perspective about this, because I have also appreciated watching the highlights of soccer games that I have been interested to follow. Mostly just the World Cup games. I noticed that the highlight videos of soccer games are considerably shorter than the videos of NFL game highlights. Though soccer is pretty much "non-stop action," (much more like basketball), the action tends to be a little boring for lots of people too. Including me. So there is a bit of pros and cons regardless what sport you are watching and which sport you more enjoy watching for whatever your reason(s).
I enjoyed watching the 9r game on Christmas day with my son. Enjoyed, because I got to watch with my son which is a rare treat. He might be a bigger 9r fan than I am, even though he was too young to have enjoyed the Montana years like I did. My son likes to make the point that football involves so much strategy that is interesting to follow. Both in terms of an offensive team and then the defensive team too. I enjoy all that as well, whereas with basketball, baseball and soccer there is very little strategy involved as compared to football. Otherwise, the 9r game this Christmas was one sad experience I hope I don't have to endure again anytime soon!
How did you do with all that gambling this Christmas?
Lol, EEEK at the gambling, but I DO really enjoy reading your posts! I used to watch poker tournaments on ESPN (when I had cable) -- they were really fun but what I was MOST impressed with was how QUICKLY the players could understand what new cards meant and that they needed to do. I could figure out what the cards meant too, but it would take me a lot longer than I'd be allowed in a poker tournament!
I think in retirement I will try to learn poker, not because I will ever be much of a gambler -- I just don't have the guts, frankly, and I have worked SO HARD for everything I have that I don't want to lose it -- but because it looks like fun and GREAT brain stimulation.
And of course I would only want to bet my teams ... and one of them is the Patriots and I think this year I'd have to bet AGAINST them ...
While the "kids" were here the last couple of days, we played a couple rounds of liars dice but with cards instead of dice and all of us played rather than just the two people as the typical liars dice game involves. Like poker (which I also greatly enjoy even though it's been years since I used to play poker far more often), liars dice involves a bit of bluffing too. Made for a good amount of fun for us anyway.
I won't get into the details as to how we got into liars dice while visiting relatives in Salt Lake City, but I was amazed that not one person of the four people we were playing with had ever even heard of liars dice! We had to teach them how to play!
I’m not suggesting a casino can’t be fun now and then, but I think most folks would agree it’s an odd/depressing place to spend Christmas (or any time on a regular basis); however, New Year’s Eve with friends makes more sense.
I have gone to a few home games this season (and usually do); I have access to a suite. Obviously, I understand some folks wouldn’t want to attend a Niners game on Christmas evening, especially if they aren’t huge fans; hence the reason it’s only part of the group who is going with me (and it’s a Christmas gift/my treat for them as well as a way to spend time/bond with the other guys in the family, since we don’t regularly do so).
That said, the game doesn’t start until after five, so I previously mentioned I’d be spending time with everyone earlier in the day i.e. a brunch, as always. In other words, it’s not all about the game (and it’s a unique situation they’re playing on Christmas). My girlfriend and I will also celebrate this evening by way of dinner with a few very close friends (and will exchange our gifts for each other later tonight), so our usual plans are not affected.
Christmas or not, I know lots of people who would kill for those tickets to watch that game on there Christmas day, and in a suite? Very nice and good for you, but oh what a sad game it turned out to be...
Otherwise, I've never been all that big about going to the games at the stadiums. It's never been about the expense, although the tickets seem to get ever more pricey by the year. It's more about having to contend with the drive to get there to and from. Then the parking and all the rest that in the end leaves me feeling I'd rather just watch in the comfort of my own home. Last game I went to was the Giants/Dodgers game earlier this year in San Francisco. We took the train in which is a great way to avoid traffic and the expense of parking. We were guessing what the expense of the parking might be (in addition to the expense of the tickets, and the food and drink), and someone sitting close to us overheard our conversation. She told us that parking close to the stadium cost over $100 minimum. Typically about $150! For parking? How crazy it that? A gyro sandwich at the stadium cost me over $20 and my beer cost me about $20 too.
Then you see the gridlock of cars trying to get past the stadium just before and after the game, and you can understand how you either come early, pay what you must for the parking (and be in no hurry to leave after the game), or you better find another way to get there like we did. Parking at the train station is minimal. I got lucky and didn't have to pay anything for parking that night, because I arrived with little time to catch the train, so I couldn't get a parking ticket for the paid parking spot where I parked. Fortunately I found no ticket on my windshield when I got back. "Win some and you lose some" as they say. Not getting a parking ticket in the Bay Area is a very rare win that I much appreciated.
Christmas or not, I know lots of people who would kill for those tickets to watch that game on there Christmas day, and in a suite? Very nice and good for you, but oh what a sad game it turned out to be...
Thanks! Frustrating loss, to be sure, as it wasn’t even close (but I wouldn’t call it ‘sad’). They’re still hanging on to the #1 seed.
That said, we had a good time; it’s not often the guys in the family have an opportunity to hang-out by ourselves, especially those on my girlfriend’s side. I’m usually with friends, colleagues and/or my brother at games (and sometimes my girlfriend).
Since we don’t believe the story/message, I don’t see the point (or the beauty) - but that’s me. Happy New Year!
well, Let me point out that in Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen I do not believe in the existence of the Norse gods depicted in those legends either, but would jump on any chance to see the series performed professionally.
Nor do I believe in the existence of the fairies in Shakepeare's Midsummer Nights Dream but that remains one of my favorites of all of his comedies.
The Midnight Mass or Eucharist as they call it is a well performed and artistically merited presentation and that is why we attend. It is a very beautiful and peaceful presentation. It is art. Same as the aforementioned presentations.
Art is to be enjoyed regardless of the subject matter.
The Midnight Mass or Eucharist as they call it is a well performed and artistically merited presentation and that is why we attend. It is a very beautiful and peaceful presentation. It is art. Same as the aforementioned presentations.
Art is to be enjoyed regardless of the subject matter.
Not everyone would interpret a church service as art, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. For me, as an atheist, the holidays are more about spending time with (and appreciating) friends and family.
Since we don’t believe the story/message, I don’t see the point (or the beauty) - but that’s me. Happy New Year!
It has been said, we are a story -telling ape. Stories are so often used to carry a message, generally moral, which is a hopeful sign. Though over the past couple of decade4s the messaging seems more to show that what we thought was good was in fact bad.
But the point is, that a work of entertainment (and the Magic flute or Midsummer marriage have to be entertaining or they fail, folks, as works of musical art) are beautiful in the message they convey to us as humans, whether it's Mozart showing that evil gets taken down (Don Giovalli) or Wagner's nasty message of 'Woman should sacrifice herself out of love for her Man' where we should enjoy the uplift of the music even if we reject the message.
In that respect I see even science as being a thing of beauty because of the uplift we get from understanding the nature we live in, as distinct from rejecting the science in favour of seeing nature as a cosmic advertisement for a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
Not everyone would interpret a church service as art, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. For me, as an atheist, the holidays are more about spending time with (and appreciating) friends and family.
Of course. Personal life, interests and values should not be dogmatically regulated 'Thou shalt enjoy This and not That'.
I don't do Xmas magic much these days, but I always find it an appropriate time to hear the Bach Christmas oratorio....even those Lutheran chorales.
Ok, listen or not as one likes, but the 'pastorale' supposed to represent the sheperd's abiding in the fields with three different kinds of oboes, is what sold me on this oratorio.
Deleted scene....thankfully. Point is supposed to be they totally missed the descending angel bringing the good news.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-28-2023 at 07:58 AM..
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