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I enjoy poker now and then, particularly with friends or a few times a year in Vegas (but it doesn’t mean I would spend Christmas in a casino, per the thread); I don’t take it that seriously (and certainly not more so than my girlfriend/friends/family). That said, some do a good job of avoiding the issue (of addiction) by speaking (even) more about gambling.
Behaviors commonly seen in those relative to a potential problem include denial/avoidance as well as boasting one regularly wins more than they lose. Another is the enjoyment of discussing it in detail and reliving the high of winning, as Matt has theoretically demonstrated in a thread that really doesn’t have anything to do with gambling whatsoever, other than a few have expressed they spend Christmas in a casino.
I just said that I largely gave it up for a year and a half. To be quite honest, I don't enjoy it enough to be addicted to it. It's best in (relatively) small doses...there is a sweet spot where you're playing frequently enough to be 'on your game' but infrequently enough to derive maximum enjoyment. Drinking is a different story and I'd readily admit I've struggled in that department. Poker and sportsbetting are preferred forms of recreation that are controllable given the spectrum of other activities I enjoy. I live in an area that doesn't have a whole lot to do for 6+ months of the year, so that is another contributing factor. I very much enjoy time spent outdoors, but climatic factors are a limiting issue here in the snowiest major city in the continental US (or second-snowiest if you want to consider Syracuse a major city). Not opposed to relocating at some point, maybe even to your state.
I don't think anyone besides me said that they've spent Xmas in a casino, though LearnMe sounds like he wouldn't be opposed in theory. I've discussed it a lot, yes, but mostly in response to questions/feedback from others. If you choose never to attempt to acquire a grasp of game theory and how it applies to poker (Von Neumann himself used poker to help explicate game theory, which he invented), that's your loss.
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 12-28-2023 at 12:21 PM..
As an atheist, I consider morality (relative to Christmas) to be about giving or doing for those less fortunate (as opposed to finding beauty or art, as LargeKingCat mentioned, in the message of a church service). It is also about spending time with loved ones; hence the reason I can’t relate to anyone’s desire or motivation to spend Christmas in a casino, either.
It’s about love, kindness and humanity rather than a message about a god who essentially commands folks how to think or feel. That’s not (a message of) morality; it’s fear.
Yep. Which is why (after a few handouts and bags of stuff for the local foodbank and old persons' home which I've avoided so far having passed the annual test of feeding myself without help, after which they old persons collection squad officers all joined my in the Burmese curry I'd just whipped up) one sends Xmas messages to the relatives, thankful that I won't have to sit through five hours of inane Gossipp ('nuff sed) with some Hollywood release intended for Xmas (but probably more appropriate for the bin) being inflicted on us.
Gotta say last time was Night at the Museum which just didn't do it for me. A thanks for guessing which character scenes made me cringe most (hint Rob. Williams trying to play Teddy Rooseveldt). Now I can just h keep the dearly beloved at computers' length.
I enjoy poker now and then, particularly with friends or a few times a year in Vegas (but it doesn’t mean I would spend Christmas in a casino, per the thread); I don’t take it that seriously (and certainly not more so than my girlfriend/friends/family). That said, some do a good job of avoiding the issue (of addiction) by speaking (even) more about gambling.
Behaviors commonly seen in those relative to a potential problem include denial/avoidance as well as boasting one regularly wins more than they lose. Another is the enjoyment of discussing it in detail and reliving the high of winning, as Matt has theoretically demonstrated in a thread that really doesn’t have anything to do with gambling whatsoever, other than a few have expressed they spend Christmas in a casino.
My father was somewhat of a gambler. Mostly the horses. And he went often enough that he really did get to know how to bet and who to bet on. And, occasionally he did go to Atlantic City. And he kept careful track of his winnings and losings, and he did win enough so that in any one year he was on the + side.
I, on the other hand, was not a gambler. Except one thing. When I would go to Florida to visit my mother, once or twice during a visit I would go to Jai Alai. And each time I went I would put a certain amoung of money in my pocket...and that was my limit. If it lasted an hour, fine. It it lasted 3 hours, fine. It was the cost of entertainment. What bothered me about Jai Alai and other gambling...from a morality standpoint...was how many people I saw that looked as if they should NOT be gambling. People who looked as if they weren't sure where their next meal would come from. People who looked as if they couldn't support their families. People who looked as if they had alcohol or drug problems, too. For many people gambling is just a form of recreation, and -- in my view -- not sinful. But when gambling grabs you so bad you can't responsibly support yourself and/or your family...then it's a sin.
My father was somewhat of a gambler. Mostly the horses. And he went often enough that he really did get to know how to bet and who to bet on. And, occasionally he did go to Atlantic City. And he kept careful track of his winnings and losings, and he did win enough so that in any one year he was on the + side.
I, on the other hand, was not a gambler. Except one thing. When I would go to Florida to visit my mother, once or twice during a visit I would go to Jai Alai. And each time I went I would put a certain amoung of money in my pocket...and that was my limit. If it lasted an hour, fine. It it lasted 3 hours, fine. It was the cost of entertainment. What bothered me about Jai Alai and other gambling...from a morality standpoint...was how many people I saw that looked as if they should NOT be gambling. People who looked as if they weren't sure where their next meal would come from. People who looked as if they couldn't support their families. People who looked as if they had alcohol or drug problems, too. For many people gambling is just a form of recreation, and -- in my view -- not sinful. But when gambling grabs you so bad you can't responsibly support yourself and/or your family...then it's a sin.
Desperate people do desperate things. I wouldn't assume that gambling put them in penury ... though it can and does. But I have observed that people who are hand-to-mouth are more prone to playing the lottery or other forms of gambling when they have a spare couple of bucks because it speaks to the hope that they could actually raise themselves out of their situation somehow. The poor are more likely to believe in god for the same reason.
Sadly, below a certain standard of living, various forces tend to keep you from rising, and magical thinking is all you have left.
For many people gambling is just a form of recreation, and -- in my view -- not sinful. But when gambling grabs you so bad you can't responsibly support yourself and/or your family...then it's a sin.
As an atheist, obviously, I don’t see gambling (or even an addiction) as a sin; frankly, I’m surprised you clearly state the latter is, Phet. Rather, it’s a matter of psychological and financial health as well as one’s overall happiness.
That said, relative to my previous point per the thread/Christmas, anyone who is thinking about/discussing strategy and/or how much they can win on Christmas (or any day) has surpassed being an occasional/recreational gambler for fun. I can’t think of anything more pathetic than sitting in a dark casino on a day when I could be celebrating joy with my girlfriend, friends and family.
As an atheist, obviously, I don’t see gambling (or even an addiction) as a sin; frankly, I’m surprised you clearly state the latter is, Phet. Rather, it’s a matter of psychological and financial health as well as one’s overall happiness.
That said, relative to my previous point per the thread/Christmas, anyone who is thinking about/discussing strategy and/or how much they can win on Christmas (or any day) has surpassed being an occasional/recreational gambler for fun. I can’t think of anything more pathetic than sitting in a dark casino on a day when I could be celebrating joy with my girlfriend, friends and family.
I use this definition: "any act regarded as such a transgression, especially a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle".
As an atheist, I consider morality (relative to Christmas) to be about giving or doing for those less fortunate (as opposed to finding beauty or art, as LargeKingCat mentioned, in the message of a church service). It is also about spending time with loved ones; hence the reason I can’t relate to anyone’s desire or motivation to spend Christmas in a casino, either.
It’s about love, kindness and humanity rather than a message about a god who essentially commands folks how to think or feel. That’s not (a message of) morality; it’s fear.
How about poolside with a view of the Pacific Ocean?
That was my Christmas this year, and it was wonderful. Last Christmas was sad and depressing. I was caring for my dying partner when my daughter called and said, "Gee, Mom, I just realized I have nowhere to go for Christmas this year. You're in Canada, Dad's gf just had a cancer procedure and can't be around anyone for ten days, and Grandma's gone." She was living in a new city. I offered to put her up in a hotel near me and go to dinner, but she had just finished some traveling and didn't want to drive six hours to sit in a hotel on Christmas except for dinner with Mom or hang out watching me do caregiving. She ended up having dinner with a couple of friends from work.
Then she said, "Since Grandma died, you know we won't be getting together with the family (my siblings, their children, etc.) anymore, and our fun family Christmases are in the past. How about next year we just blow off the whole thing and go somewhere warm?"
And so we were in Costa Rica from the 18th until the 25th. We flew out just before midnight on Christmas night. Oh, there were Christmas decorations at the resort, and we reserved the La Noche Buena dinner the night before, which was just wonderful. Then Christmas Day itself, we had breakfast and lunch and sat by the pool and had a couple of non-alcoholic pina coladas until it was time to take the transport service to the airport. Got to practice my Spanish and see a lot of cool animals. It's an eco-resort built into the jungle.
We're already talking about Iceland for next year. They have a tradition wherein you give each other a book on Christmas Eve and spend the evening reading. Right up our alley. It's about the same flight time (a little under five hours) as Costa Rica for us, and it will be really cool to be in a place that has only a little more than four hours of daylight on Christmas.
How about poolside with a view of the Pacific Ocean?
Nice! :-) Hope you enjoyed, and happy new year!
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I use this definition: "any act regarded as such a transgression, especially a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle".
The word ‘sin’ is not in my vocabulary, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. It’s too self-righteous i.e. all of us have different moral principles, as they are not dictated by a religion as atheists. Hence, how would you define a ‘deliberate violation’ of such?
Moderator cut: Off-topic
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 12-29-2023 at 08:43 AM..
Reason: Let's not discuss other posters, please.
My father was somewhat of a gambler. Mostly the horses. And he went often enough that he really did get to know how to bet and who to bet on. And, occasionally he did go to Atlantic City. And he kept careful track of his winnings and losings, and he did win enough so that in any one year he was on the + side.
I, on the other hand, was not a gambler. Except one thing. When I would go to Florida to visit my mother, once or twice during a visit I would go to Jai Alai. And each time I went I would put a certain amoung of money in my pocket...and that was my limit. If it lasted an hour, fine. It it lasted 3 hours, fine. It was the cost of entertainment. What bothered me about Jai Alai and other gambling...from a morality standpoint...was how many people I saw that looked as if they should NOT be gambling. People who looked as if they weren't sure where their next meal would come from. People who looked as if they couldn't support their families. People who looked as if they had alcohol or drug problems, too. For many people gambling is just a form of recreation, and -- in my view -- not sinful. But when gambling grabs you so bad you can't responsibly support yourself and/or your family...then it's a sin.
When I was a kid in the '90s, OTB (Off Track Betting) locations were quite common in Western New York. As a freshman in college, my friend and I ventured into one near UB (our SAT scores were a combined 3000, yet we both found ourselves at the local state school!)...we were looking to place a bet on the season win total for the Bills. For our entire childhoods, he and I had passed OTB locations countless times, yet neither of us had ever been in one, and so we didn't realize they were devoted exclusively to horse racing. He was 18, I was barely 17, so even if there had been a wider sports betting operation to be found there, I'd have had to pool my money and have him place the bet, heh.
I know you grew up in 'eastern Western New York',, so did your father ever find himself at OTB? In another life, one without the proliferation of casinos that we've seen in recent years, I'd probably have become a semi-regular at OTB. Not sure how common they were back in your dad's day, however
PS: 'Sin' has obvious religious undertones, and even if you found a dictionary willing to grant you secular usage of the term, it's a word best avoided when conversing with a bunch of atheists. I took multiple ethics classes in college, and you'll never catch a moral philosopher employing that term. Theologians, sure. Its mere usage in a secular context implies the existence of black-and-white moral precepts that don't actually exist except in people's imaginations
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