Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting comment. To me anyway, because I have discussed this sort of thing many times over my many sports-watching years...
In particular, most recently, I've mentioned to others how much I have enjoyed and taken advantage of the game highlights you can watch on YouTube. Typically around 15 minutes long, they allow me to catch up on what's happening with other games/teams as compared to the old days when I might manage to watch just the 9r games, for example, and pass on the other games. Whether it be actual play time or the highlights, you are right to note the small percentage of time really worth watching as compared to the whole game, but there is something about watching even the plays that don't make the highlights too. Depends on what kind of fan you are. Average actual play time of an NFL game is about 18 minutes in any case, but there is all the time devoted to replays that I enjoy watching too. Another not-so-recent development is the ability to record the games quite easily, which I do on a regular basis for two reasons; one, to avoid having to wait through the commercials. I just zip right through the amazing number of commercials. Two, my wife is not a big sports fan, so we'll typically enjoy whatever entertainment together until she decides to call it a night. That's when I'll watch my recording of the game. After making sure I haven't caught any news about the game until then.
As for soccer. Funny your perspective about this, because I have also appreciated watching the highlights of soccer games that I have been interested to follow. Mostly just the World Cup games. I noticed that the highlight videos of soccer games are considerably shorter than the videos of NFL game highlights. Though soccer is pretty much "non-stop action," (much more like basketball), the action tends to be a little boring for lots of people too. Including me. So there is a bit of pros and cons regardless what sport you are watching and which sport you more enjoy watching for whatever your reason(s).
I enjoyed watching the 9r game on Christmas day with my son. Enjoyed, because I got to watch with my son which is a rare treat. He might be a bigger 9r fan than I am, even though he was too young to have enjoyed the Montana years like I did. My son likes to make the point that football involves so much strategy that is interesting to follow. Both in terms of an offensive team and then the defensive team too. I enjoy all that as well, whereas with basketball, baseball and soccer there is very little strategy involved as compared to football. Otherwise, the 9r game this Christmas was one sad experience I hope I don't have to endure again anytime soon!
How did you do with all that gambling this Christmas?
18 minutes of actual game time for an NFL game does appear to be the 'correct' answer at this time; the study I was thinking of did in fact determine 11 minutes to be the average, but it was done all the way back in 2010, by the Wall Street Journal. A 7-minute increase during that span seems like a lot, but it does make some sense when one considers the increase in passing during that time...the only way an NFL game could ever achieve 60 minutes of game action would be if the entire game was a succession of incomplete passes and/or punts, heh
Even for someone who likes soccer as much as I do, watching the game can often get boring. The most fun bet to make during soccer to help alleviate any boredom-related issues is to make corner kick-related bets...there are often around 10 corner kicks in a given game, and the better team doesn't always have more of them. It's a bit of a degenerate bet, but I have no real aversion to making degenerate bets for the sake of entertainment, hah.
New England salvaged my Casino Christmas Eve...my initial bet on that game was 100 to win 390 on Denver ML, under 47.5, Zappe over 0.5 TD passes. But as the game went on and I saw what appeared to be a pretty evenly matched game between two mediocre teams, I started hitting the New England ML repeatedly at around +300. I made most of these bets when they were down 7-3. Once they took a 23-7 lead, I assumed that was good. Ran into a poker acquaintance at that time, and he gave me the timeless advice to not count my money prematurely. Sure enough, Denver improbably tied it up at 23, and with a couple mins left, they got the ball back at their own 35 or so, needing only to get into FG range. When they threw incomplete on 1st down, I decided to double/triple/quadruple down on New England, who were back to being about 3:1 underdogs. Luckily, Denver went 3 and out and NE's relatively awful kicker hit a game-winner from 56 or thereabouts. Made about 500 on that game; had been breakevenish before that. The next day, I made a small bet on Raiders +10.5 v KC and sat the rest of the day out
The 49ers are a fun team to watch, even in defeat, and you're well set up to be watching them in the Super Bowl this year
It has been said, we are a story -telling ape. Stories are so often used to carry a message, generally moral, which is a hopeful sign. Though over the past couple of decade4s the messaging seems more to show that what we thought was good was in fact bad.
But the point is, that a work of entertainment (and the Magic flute or Midsummer marriage have to be entertaining or they fail, folks, as works of musical art) are beautiful in the message they convey to us as humans, whether it's Mozart showing that evil gets taken down (Don Giovalli) or Wagner's nasty message of 'Woman should sacrifice herself out of love for her Man' where we should enjoy the uplift of the music even if we reject the message.
In that respect I see even science as being a thing of beauty because of the uplift we get from understanding the nature we live in, as distinct from rejecting the science in favour of seeing nature as a cosmic advertisement for a god.
Of course. Personal life, interests and values should not be dogmatically regulated 'Thou shalt enjoy This and not That'.
I don't do Xmas magic much these days, but I always find it an appropriate time to hear the Bach Christmas oratorio....even those Lutheran chorales.
Ok, listen or not as one likes, but the 'pastorale' supposed to represent the sheperd's abiding in the fields with three different kinds of oboes, is what sold me on this oratorio.
Deleted scene....thankfully. Point is supposed to be they totally missed the descending angel bringing the good news.
Indeed, beauty, art, is all "in the eyes of the beholder." This is one of the beautiful things about art!
While the "kids" were here over the Christmas holiday, at one point we decided to watch a Christmas movie. We even looked up the 100 best Christmas movies ever made to help us decide on which ones to consider. Unfortunately, we had all already seen most of the good ones. At least a few times, and we were hoping to watch one we hadn't seen before. We also thought some laughs would be fun, so we ended up watching "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation."
All I can say is to be sure not to make the same mistake we made...
Stories are so often used to carry a message, generally moral, which is a hopeful sign.
As an atheist, I consider morality (relative to Christmas) to be about giving or doing for those less fortunate (as opposed to finding beauty or art, as LargeKingCat mentioned, in the message of a church service). It is also about spending time with loved ones; hence the reason I can’t relate to anyone’s desire or motivation to spend Christmas in a casino, either.
It’s about love, kindness and humanity rather than a message about a god who essentially commands folks how to think or feel. That’s not (a message of) morality; it’s fear.
18 minutes of actual game time for an NFL game does appear to be the 'correct' answer at this time; the study I was thinking of did in fact determine 11 minutes to be the average, but it was done all the way back in 2010, by the Wall Street Journal. A 7-minute increase during that span seems like a lot, but it does make some sense when one considers the increase in passing during that time...the only way an NFL game could ever achieve 60 minutes of game action would be if the entire game was a succession of incomplete passes and/or punts, heh
Even for someone who likes soccer as much as I do, watching the game can often get boring. The most fun bet to make during soccer to help alleviate any boredom-related issues is to make corner kick-related bets...there are often around 10 corner kicks in a given game, and the better team doesn't always have more of them. It's a bit of a degenerate bet, but I have no real aversion to making degenerate bets for the sake of entertainment, hah.
New England salvaged my Casino Christmas Eve...my initial bet on that game was 100 to win 390 on Denver ML, under 47.5, Zappe over 0.5 TD passes. But as the game went on and I saw what appeared to be a pretty evenly matched game between two mediocre teams, I started hitting the New England ML repeatedly at around +300. I made most of these bets when they were down 7-3. Once they took a 23-7 lead, I assumed that was good. Ran into a poker acquaintance at that time, and he gave me the timeless advice to not count my money prematurely. Sure enough, Denver improbably tied it up at 23, and with a couple mins left, they got the ball back at their own 35 or so, needing only to get into FG range. When they threw incomplete on 1st down, I decided to double/triple/quadruple down on New England, who were back to being about 3:1 underdogs. Luckily, Denver went 3 and out and NE's relatively awful kicker hit a game-winner from 56 or thereabouts. Made about 500 on that game; had been breakevenish before that. The next day, I made a small bet on Raiders +10.5 v KC and sat the rest of the day out
The 49ers are a fun team to watch, even in defeat, and you're well set up to be watching them in the Super Bowl this year
Even if an entire game was a succession of incomplete passes and/or punts, you wouldn't be able to see a game achieve 60 minutes of game action, but enough with the hypotheticals. The Patriots/Broncos game was something to watch. The 9r game was a bit of a disappointment for us. To say the least. A little too much wind constantly being let out of the 9r balloon. Especially to see Purdy's shot at MVP seemingly go "up in smoke." Certainly not the game we were hoping for.
You must not bet too much money, because I would think if you did, watching all these games and bets would be more stress than fun or entertainment. That said, I know how putting some money on the game(s) can be fun too. We almost always put some money into a rather random drawing of first, second, third quarter and final scores of the Super Bowl. And I've always enjoyed the March Madness madness with some money on the line. Picking the winners of each round all the way to the finals, but never enough money to really care much about whether I win or lose. I will admit I do prefer to win however.
What are your betting limits if you don't mind my asking?
Most I am willing to bet in casinos these days (I exclusively bet at black jack or craps) is $400. Which I explain to my wife is $400 I spend for the sake of entertainment. Like I might a ticket for a good seat at a concert. Last two visits to the casinos, I left with a little of their money rather than them take any of mine. Which in a backward sort of way is at least a $400 win for me. It's entirely a $400+ win for my wife in any case. Before getting married, my limit was a good deal higher than $400...
As an atheist, I consider morality (relative to Christmas) to be about giving or doing for those less fortunate (as opposed to finding beauty or art, as LargeKingCat mentioned, in the message of a church service). It is also about spending time with loved ones; hence the reason I can’t relate to anyone’s desire or motivation to spend Christmas in a casino, either.
It’s about love, kindness and humanity rather than a message about a god who essentially commands folks how to think or feel. That’s not (a message of) morality; it’s fear.
Even if an entire game was a succession of incomplete passes and/or punts, you wouldn't be able to see a game achieve 60 minutes of game action, but enough with the hypotheticals. The Patriots/Broncos game was something to watch. The 9r game was a bit of a disappointment for us. To say the least. A little too much wind constantly being let our of the 9r balloon. Especially to see Purdy's shot at MVP seemingly go "up in smoke." Certainly not the game we were hoping for.
You must not bet too much money, because I would think if you did, watching all these games and bets would be more stress than fun or entertainment. That said, I know how putting some money on the game(s) can be fun too. We almost always put some money into a rather random drawing of first, second, third quarter and final scores of the Super Bowl. And I've always enjoyed the March Madness madness with some money on the line. Picking the winners of each round all the way to the finals, but never enough money to really care much about whether I win or lose. I will admit I do prefer to win however.
What are your betting limits if you don't mind my asking?
Most I am willing to bet in casinos these days (I exclusively bet at black jack or craps) is $400. Which I explain to my wife is $400 I spend for the sake of entertainment. Like I might a ticket for a good seat at a concert. Last two visits to the casinos, I left with a little of their money rather than them take any of mine. Which in a backward sort of way is at least a $400 win for me. It's entirely a $400+ win for my wife in any case. Before getting married, my limit was a good deal higher than $400...
Betting limits vary by day/mood/desire for action. In poker, I often buy in for $1k at a 5/5 pot limit Omaha game...in that game I've lost 4k-5k in a night on several occasions over the past year. (Of course, I've won similar amounts even more frequently than I've lost). So with poker included, that'd be about my limit. With sports betting, I set the limits tighter, because I don't think I have the skill edge that I have in poker. Ideally I don't want to find myself down four figures at the casino, because the desire to 'chase losses'/'try to get it back' is strong, and with no poker room available at the Buffalo casino, that leaves one option once the night's sporting events have ended: the blackjack table. And that's a pretty dangerous option, because unlike a couple of my friends, I never taught myself to effectively count cards (not that there are even many opportunities for card counting available in modern-day casinos). Friend of mine who hails from Scotland is listed on the proverbial 'black book'; he's banned from playing blackjack in the majority of casinos. Turning Stone in Central New York State allows him to play poker but not blackjack; The Jack casino in downtown Cleveland does not allow him to be admitted at all. He called me once from Cleveland when he got that news; I found it pretty funny, if obviously frustrating to drive 6 hours round-trip with the goal of playing poker, only to find out that you're banned for your blackjack prowess.
As for me, though, it's merely something-less-than-perfect basic strategy at the blackjack table (I only learned even that bare minimum knowledge a couple years ago), so the house has their edge, and I'd rather not let them capitalize on it. I've been more disciplined with avoiding blackjack this year as opposed to last. The largest bet I ever made on a single game was 2k last year, on Kansas City v the Colts...the line was 4.5 or something, and I adjusted it to KC -2.5. So I was betting 2k to win 3200 or something like that. The Colts won that game by 3, maybe 16-13, on a touchdown scored in the final seconds, on a drive that was prolonged by a very, very dubious unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against Chris Jones on a 4th down play that would've effectively ended the game. So, extremely frustrating, but as a longtime poker player, I know all too well what a 'bad beat' feels like. By the standards of the locals casino I frequent, I'm actually easily on the high roller side of the spectrum...regulars are constantly complaining to me about the beat they just took, and as I shake my head and look at their betting ticket, I see they're holding a $10 parlay that could've hit for 150 or something. But I'm in Buffalo, one of the poorest city propers in the country above a population of 200k or 250k (whichever you'd prefer). Not exactly Monaco, haha. And ultimately I'm hardly rich myself, given that mid-stakes poker games are my only source of income. The main consideration with sports betting is to preserve the poker bankroll above all else
Guy who runs an illegal poker game in the Buffalo area lost around 20k playing at his own game in a single week a couple months back. This was right before the Bills-Bucs TNF game, so if you want to look that up, that's when it occurred. He then showed me his betting ticket for that Bills game: 4k to win 22k on Bills -13.5 and a TD by TE Dalton Kincaid. He was betting basically all his remaining cash on that bet, trying to recoup most or all of his losses. Kincaid scored (his first TD of the season!) in the 2nd quarter. So now he just needs the Bills to win by 14 or more (in a game where they were favored by around 10). It was 24-10 with a few minutes left. I fell asleep; woke up to a text from another friend who knew about the bet: 'Your friend got <bleeped> on his bet.' Tampa scored a TD with a couple minutes left after a very questionable penalty called on a Bills DB in the end zone...reminded me of my KC bet from last year. Final score 24-18, he loses, finds himself temporarily broke, then asks me if I want to buy a 10% share of his poker operation for 30k. I declined, as running an illegal game is an entirely different animal than playing in one, legally. With playing, your greatest legal risk is that you could have your money confiscated should the game happen to get busted (a remote concern but not an impossibility). Running the game, you're at risk of much worse. I actually called the NY gaming commission earlier this year to see if there were any legal loopholes that would allow me (and a friend) to run a legal poker game, as I'd heard from a poker-playing lawyer that it may be possible. The gaming commission rep said otherwise, and so I'll never be involved on that end. Just a poker player, it'll be
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 12-28-2023 at 11:10 AM..
Re CC's latest take, I give money to broke friends in the form of very laxly enforced loans throughout the year. I give money to anyone who asks for it on the street throughout the year. I spend ample time with family throughout the year. I don't need a holiday to which I'm basically indifferent to induce such behavior, just as a fear-inducing god shouldn't be required to elicit decency. Christmas is just another day, and I do not alter my behavior in any way because of its arrival
Betting limits vary by day/mood/desire for action. In poker, I often buy in for $1k at a 5/5 pot limit Omaha game...in that game I've lost 4k-5k in a night on several occasions over the past year. (Of course, I've won similar amounts even more frequently than I've lost). So with poker included, that'd be about my limit. With sports betting, I set the limits tighter, because I don't think I have the skill edge that I have in poker. Ideally I don't want to find myself down four figures at the casino, because the desire to 'chase losses'/'try to get it back' is strong, and with no poker room available at the Buffalo casino, that leaves one option once the night's games have ended: the blackjack table. And that's a pretty dangerous option, because unlike a couple of my friends, I never taught myself to effectively count cards (not that there are even many opportunities for card counting available in modern-day casinos). Friend of mine who hails from Scotland is listed on the proverbial 'black book'; he's banned from playing blackjack in the majority of casinos. Turning Stone in Central New York State allows him to play poker but not blackjack; The Jack casino in downtown Cleveland does not allow him to be admitted at all. He called me once from Cleveland when he got that news; I found it pretty funny, if obviously frustrating to drive 6 hours round-trip with the goal of playing poker, only to find out that you're banned for your blackjack prowess.
As for me, though, it's merely something-less-than-perfect basic strategy at the blackjack table (I only learned even that bare minimum knowledge a couple years ago), so the house has their edge, and I'd rather not let them capitalize on it. I've been more disciplined with avoiding blackjack this year as opposed to last. The largest bet I ever made on a single game was 2k last year, on Kansas City v the Colts...the line was 4.5 or something, and I adjusted it to KC -2.5. So I was betting 2k to win 3200 or something like that. The Colts won that game by 3, maybe 16-13, on a touchdown scored in the final seconds, on a drive that was prolonged by a very, very dubious unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against Chris Jones on a 4th down play that would've effectively ended the game. So, extremely frustrating, but as a longtime poker player, I know all too well what a 'bad beat' feels like. By the standards of the locals casino I frequent, I'm actually easily on the high roller side of the spectrum...regulars ate constantly complaining to me about the beat they just took, and as I shake my head and look at their betting ticket, I see they're holding a $10 parlay that could've hit for 150 or something. But I'm in Buffalo, one of the poorest city propers in the country above a population of 200k or 250k (whichever you'd prefer). Not exactly Monaco, haha.
I’m skeptical of any regular gambler who boasts they have won more than they lost, particularly relative to a thread such as this one. Weren’t you one of those previously complaining about gifts as well?
Frankly, it sounds as though you could have a gambling addiction; it would certainly explain why you mentioned you looked forward to spending Christmas in a casino.
I’m skeptical of any regular gambler who boasts they have won more than they lost, particularly relative to a thread such as this one. Weren’t you one of those previously complaining about gifts as well?
Frankly, it sounds as though you could have a gambling addiction; it would certainly explain why you mentioned you looked forward to spending Christmas in a casino.
Do you have zero idea whatsoever how poker works? You've never played a $10 kitchen table game with friends where skill differences quickly became apparent (assuming one had enough knowledge to know what to look for)? Poker is an entirely different game than games like craps, roulette, baccarat, automatic-shuffle blackjack, etc where the odds are fixed and the house has a small but constant edge. In poker, any given player's expected value is constantly in flux and defined by his current form and the aggregate ability/form of the people he's playing against. Go spend a few hours browsing the 2+2 poker forums (well-known statistician Nate Silver has over 10k posts on that forum, among others) and get back to me. Over the short term in poker, anyone can win, anyone can lose. But over the long term, good players win. It's akin to being the house at a casino table game. It took me fifteen years to get there, but I won 40k in a tournament in 2018 (which is documented on the poker results website 'the Hendon mob' if you need proof), and I've been profitable ever since (although I didn't play all that much between April 2018 and November 2019, because playing good poker against strong competition is taxing mentally and emotionally and can start to feel like a job. I spent the vast majority of that time reading and drinking, two activities I place above poker on the enjoyment scale. Then winter 2019 hit, I realized there'd be little to do in Buffalo for the following 5 or so months, and I got back into it. Won around 10k in March 2020 in the last major tournament ever run at Seneca Niagara Casino in Niagara Falls, NY, as they've never re-opened their poker room post-pandemic. For whatever reason, that result isn't listed on Hendon Mob. Friend who eliminated me in that tournament (I finished 4th; he finished 3rd) was blindsided by stomach cancer not long thereafter and died an extremely painful death (well, I'm not sure if the death itself was painful, but the last month of his life sure was, based on reports of mutual friends who visited him at the hospital...pandemic-era restrictions on visits had to have been loose enough to allow such visits, so I'm guessing that was spring 2022 rather than spring 2021, as I was initially thinking? I forget)
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 12-28-2023 at 11:54 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
