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If my wife had an abortion, I would be pretty upset. I think if the man in the relationship has to pay child support if the child is born, then he deserves a little bit of say.
I believe that the woman should at least inform the man of the situation, however I firmly believe that it is ultimately up to the woman to do so. Women are bounds and leaps far more psychologically attached to the fetus then men ever will be and if they can muster up the courage to make that choice then more power to them. I know of a few women who've had abortions and even though these women are basically feminists, it was not an easy thing for any of them to do, even though they were all 100% set on doing it. All of them were left feeling, well, not feeling to good for many weeks, months afterwards (and Christians and friends, please have some respect and do not respond with Well, they feel that way because they murdered their unborn fetus. Like I said, it was a really tough thing for them to do).
Anyways, what ever your thoughts are on the situation, the woman still can have the abortion and you will never be the wiser unless you were told of it.
On gay marriage, my personal opinion is that if two people want to get married then that is their business regardless of gender.
I believe that the woman should at least inform the man of the situation, however I firmly believe that it is ultimately up to the woman to do so. Women are bounds and leaps far more psychologically attached to the fetus then men ever will be and if they can muster up the courage to make that choice then more power to them. I know of a few women who've had abortions and even though these women are basically feminists, it was not an easy thing for any of them to do, even though they were all 100% set on doing it. All of them were left feeling, well, not feeling to good for many weeks, months afterwards (and Christians and friends, please have some respect and do not respond with Well, they feel that way because they murdered their unborn fetus. Like I said, it was a really tough thing for them to do).
Anyways, what ever your thoughts are on the situation, the woman still can have the abortion and you will never be the wiser unless you were told of it.
On gay marriage, my personal opinion is that if two people want to get married then that is their business regardless of gender.
I can see what you mean, and as I said before I am not about to judge any woman that has had an abortion (pretty much because of the reasons you mentioned).
But isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect the man to be at least partially responsible for the child if it is carried through with, then deny them any say whatsoever in the case of abortion? What if the man wants to be a father to the child he helped make?
Like I say, I agree that it is mostly (I mean really really mostly the woman's right). In the above instance though, saying that the woman's choice overrides the mans choice is somewhat like equating a woman to an incubator. At that point you are saying that the child is the woman's responsibility.
PS: Not trying to be rude or pick a fight, sometimes I'm more to the point than I mean to be, so if you find this offensive, I don't intend to be harsh, rude or offensive.
Either way, these are decisions that people need to make for themselves and not have the government intrude on them.
True, but what about sex-ed? If the parents (for whatever reason) refuse to inform their children about safe sex and sexual preference shouldn't the government inform the children through education?
But isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect the man to be at least partially responsible for the child if it is carried through with, then deny them any say whatsoever in the case of abortion? What if the man wants to be a father to the child he helped make?
No it definitely is not a double standard.
If the man wants the woman to not go through with an abortion - he can express that, but anything more would be taking away the woman's right to choose. How would a man's "say" have any real bearing on the situation anyway? Women can abort unless the father exercises his right to stop them? Women get 60% of the choice and men 40%? Kinda defeats the purpose of pro-choice. The man does/should have a say - but only literally that - and it should fully be the woman's choice whether or not to listen.
No it definitely is not a double standard.
If the man wants the woman to not go through with an abortion - he can express that, but anything more would be taking away the woman's right to choose. How would a man's "say" have any real bearing on the situation anyway? Women can abort unless the father exercises his right to stop them? Women get 60% of the choice and men 40%? Kinda defeats the purpose of pro-choice. The man does/should have a say - but only literally that - and it should fully be the woman's choice whether or not to listen.
Then here again, you are saying (I could be wrong, I am a lot) that the child is the sole responsibility of the woman to deal with. If that is the case why should the man have to be responsible for the child when it comes out?
I can see what you are saying here, that since the woman is the one to carry the child it is ultimately the woman's decision. I'm not saying that the man should have control over the woman's body - ever, in any case whatsoever. I am saying that if the man is expected to be a parent, she should extend him some consideration as a parent..
Don't get me wrong here, I am not advocating dead beat dads at all. But it can't be the whole takes two to tango at one time then not at another.
Originally Posted by arod0331True, but what about sex-ed? If the parents (for whatever reason) refuse to inform their children about safe sex and sexual preference shouldn't the government inform the children through education?
I'm all about sex ed. Parents are too busy with their commutes and money to even know their kids any more, let alone gather the "testicular fortitude" to talk to them about sex.
I asked my dad about the birds and the bees and he told me the whole enchilada, all kinds of crap I didn't want to hear. But in hindsight I thank him for making me embarrassed and squeamish. I can't see many parents doing that now a day.
Then here again, you are saying (I could be wrong, I am a lot) that the child is the sole responsibility of the woman to deal with. If that is the case why should the man have to be responsible for the child when it comes out?
I can see what you are saying here, that since the woman is the one to carry the child it is ultimately the woman's decision. I'm not saying that the man should have control over the woman's body - ever, in any case whatsoever. I am saying that if the man is expected to be a parent, she should extend him some consideration as a parent..
Don't get me wrong here, I am not advocating dead beat dads at all. But it can't be the whole takes two to tango at one time then not at another.
You are confusing 2 separate issues: abortion and child support. They don't directly relate.
How can a man possibly "have a say" in an abortion without taking away the woman's right to choose?
Let's look at this realistically:
Man wants to keep baby - woman does not. How do we reconcile this? Here's one way: Man gets the right to say "If you even consider an abortion without consulting me and decide to keep the baby, then I don't have to pay you child support".
Makes no sense.
Here's another way:
Man wants to keep baby - woman does not. Woman gets the right to say: You (man) get your say and so I have to give birth even though I don't want to but, after that birth - you have to raise it all by yourself.
Again, makes no sense.
Ultimately there are 2 possible outcomes of any pregnancy:
1) A baby is born - and both parents are legally responsible for it.
2) No baby is born - nobody has to take care of one or make any payments.
Originally Posted by arod0331True, but what about sex-ed? If the parents (for whatever reason) refuse to inform their children about safe sex and sexual preference shouldn't the government inform the children through education?
You have a point. I do agree that children need to be educated about sex since lots of parents won't or give their kids false information.
Kids can be informed, just not told whether to do it or not (since we all know they won't right )
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Isn't this exactly what the majority of the men believe? 
