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Asheville, I think if your proposition were true and science disproves God, etc, then we would be seeing a decrease in religion, but in fact worldwide we are seeing an increase despite more than a half century of intense scientific discovery. I think this demonstrates that there is more to the composition of beliefs than the intellect alone. Just a thought.
tic
Here in Europe, the number of religious people has indeed plummeted. What I found astonishing when I first started visiting internet forums were the number of Americans atheists who openly admitted that their friends, family or work colleagues did not know that they were atheist. There were atheists who wore the mask of being a Christian because they were afraid of being shunned by their family and community if they 'came out'... as it were. What an incredible situation!! Having said that, I suppose it is understandable that one would do that if one's employment or livelihood was going to be affected. Sad though!
For myself, I was born into an atheist family and have been atheist for every one of my 60 years. Like most of my atheist brothers and sisters here, I am atheist due to the utter lack of objective and verifiable evidence for the existence of gods. I won't see it but the time will come when Yaweh and Jesus the Christ will follow Zeus, Mithra and Dionysus onto the dusty shelves of mythology. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, they will no doubt be replaced by some other absurd superstitious belief.
The Truth is Out There. Just Not AS You'd Like It, Probably....
Quote:
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin
Law 1:
"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change forms"
or
" ΣΔH+ΔW=0"
Law 2:
"Entropy in a closed system tends to increase"
I have no idea where you think Haaziq broke the laws of thermodynamics.
But Coos, isn't it a moot point (what the h$ll is a "moot" anyhow? ahh well, we proceed...) when man tries to "equationize" the unknown. We get caught up in relying on what my rather etherial physics prof used to call "First Order Equations and Understanding". You know, simple Newtonian mechanics and all. As Wiki says: "classical physics often can be a good approximation to results otherwise obtained by quantum physics"
When it turns out there's quantum relationships (and other oddball relationships slgihtly beyond our IQ ability to figure) out there, it seems to be go like this:
W=T.
(W = Whatever you Want)
T = The Way It Probably Is. At least if you involve "strings" or Boson-Higgs Particles or the "isotopiform ditropic variance" formula.
In other words, Einstein barely glimpsed into another world, and certainly didn't figure it all out. Obviously. The more mechanical and prosaic limits of our First Order Understanding, our obedience to Set In Stone laws that the fundies conveniently use against us, allows such Limited Thinking Statements as their argument that "something cannot appear out of nothing!!!".
I say, "Why Not"? Imagine if enough physicists acknowledged this obvious qualifier, and it became common knowledge that we use a rather general set of old-fashioned "rules" to understand day-to-day matters only. For Higher Order understanding and learning, we have quantum, and other, theories which show promise in understanding the unknowns in our world.
The Xtians would truly be in a pickle, now wouldn't they?
Because the way things are right now, they have an "out" to use against us. When you are cornered, as they truly are, you'll pick up anything off the trashheap of information, and thrust it about menacingly, hoping to make contact.
"But, but... you guys say you can't make something out of nothing!"
Well, I"d say the evidence is that, actually, yes, you can, and the Universe did. Out of nothing. That would be "nothing" as we know it. Who's to say how the greater Universe "thinks" or "is"? In reality?
Let's not get stuck applying very limited 19th century physics, based on observations of apples falling from trees, and yardsticks and fulcrums in the highschool lab, to the Big Question, OK?
We have enough 19th (and much earlier) "pseudo-science" in the form of biblical observations. Let's not get mired in having those silly limitations when we're on the lookout for The Greater Universal Truth.
Asheville, I think if your proposition were true and science disproves God, etc, then we would be seeing a decrease in religion, but in fact worldwide we are seeing an increase despite more than a half century of intense scientific discovery. I think this demonstrates that there is more to the composition of beliefs than the intellect alone. Just a thought.
tic
You are using cherry picked statistics to justify your point, by using the global population as a whole, and the scientific understand that some have. The reality is that the vast majority of people do not understand the new sciences, or even care. Education is abysmal throughout most of the world, and even the education in this country is turning out idiots that can't even find their home state on a map but have a high school diploma.
Very few are nuclear physicists at least the learned among us can use a few of their buzz words. I can't design and build a nuclear reactor, a 110 story skyscraper, a bridge/tunnel to span the Chesapeake Bay, or the English Channel, but we as the dominate lifeform on this planet can accomplish these things.
If nothing else as a whole we are less smart (in a common sense way) than earlier generations. I doubt many of us could figure out all the geometry of the solar system, but someone has and explained it so that we don't have to make up a urban legend about a deity that moves the sun across the sky every day.
not sure what thread this should be on but I wanted add this link from youtube "Carl Sagan's last interview" and he shares lots of interesting thoughts on the religion subject...
You are using cherry picked statistics to justify your point, by using the global population as a whole, and the scientific understand that some have. The reality is that the vast majority of people do not understand the new sciences, or even care. Education is abysmal throughout most of the world, and even the education in this country is turning out idiots that can't even find their home state on a map but have a high school diploma.
AS these forums clearly point out in glaring detail.
Very few are nuclear physicists at least the learned among us can use a few of their buzz words. I can't design and build a nuclear reactor, a 110 story skyscraper, a bridge/tunnel to span the Chesapeake Bay, or the English Channel, but we as the dominate lifeform on this planet can accomplish these things.
If nothing else as a whole we are less smart (in a common sense way) than earlier generations. I doubt many of us could figure out all the geometry of the solar system, but someone has and explained it so that we don't have to make up a urban legend about a deity that moves the sun across the sky every day.
Tried to rep you; you have too many from me apparently.. so I'll do it publicly. I owe yah one!
MaggieZ: Thanks for the Carl Sagan interview. He was truly a brilliant man. His wife stated that during his last minutes of life, a priest came to the door of his room to offer comfort. She told him, 'Carl doesn't want to believe in things; Carl wants to know things'. That may not be the exact quote, but it gets the point across.
Science cannot disprove God, but the burden of proof is on the believer. As Carl said, faith is believing something is true in the absence of proof. It's virtually impossible to prove a negative, and science has better things to do.
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Why not?
The Truth is Out There. Just Not AS You'd Like It, Probably....
Let's not get mired in having those silly limitations when we're on the lookout for The Greater Universal Truth.
