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Having access to MARTA never improved any area in Greator Atlanta. There is no way I would want MARTA to encroach further outside of Atlanta ruining more communities. If you like living in the City, stay in the city. If you don't like driving from one of the outside countys to downtown Atlanta - then don't work there. Just because some people don't like traffic is no reason to screw up a perfectly good town that doesn't want anything to do with Atlanta.
What about the people who need work and can't get to jobs because there is little work where they live and the work they can find is not accessible by transit?
Marta is already county-wide; it serves most of Fulton County and parts of DeKalb. I know people who moved to Peachtree City and Suwanee just get AWAY from Marta. If rapid transit went out there, those people would have a fit, just like they have in the past few years when talks about expanded it to Macon came up a few years back. I'm not being hypothetical I come in contact with a lot of people; I know people that live close to the College Park train station, work downtown, and STILL drive to work. It doesn't make sense, but that's what they do.
If Marta came out to Fayetteville and I worked downtown, I'd jump right on it. But, for some people, they think that public transportation will bring in a certain class of people less desirable to live around. I have heard time and time again from some Clayton County residents about how Clayton County was a great place to be before C-Tran, their county bus system brought the whole county down, thus, making these "less desirable classes of people" able to get around in the county, per say.
Even if we wanted it to expand, let's face it; it won't. If it hadn't by now, it's not going to. Maybe they can have an Extreme Marta Makeover or something to get it to other areas in the Metro area.
I can concur with you. I live in Kennesaw and the "undesirables" don't use the transit. Actually, I feel safer on the buses then I do walking around bcause few people use them. Anyone can get into a place and committ crimes if they really wanted to, but the people who want to work and not steal from people can't get into areas with jobs unless they steal a car.
Man, I tell ya, the kind of thinking about MARTA ruining someone's area drives me insane. I just don't get it. I really don't. Some people seem to really be afraid of change, even one that would benefit many. And I wonder if these people have ever travelled to other countries/cities that rely on trains and do it right.
Another issue could be race. I have ridden CCT and the vast majority of riders are either black or hispanic and usually poor. It was the same way when I tried out the MARTA. Many people may not admit this but part of the issue of voiding MARTA is race.
We have discussion this topic to death before on another thread. Please search the topic for answers.
This is very complex issue.
First, race and crime maybe issues twenty years ago, certainly not true right now. I know many professionals of all races in Dunwoody, Sandy Spring and North Spring station use MARTA to go to work. Lately, North fulton even want MARTA to expand to Northpoint mall.
As for Gwinnett, even in 1990, 43% of people in West Gwinnett area (along the railroad track cities like Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee, Sugar Hill, Buford) vote yes for the train. I image now it should be easily passed if only for West Gwinnett area. But on the East Gwinnett, there is a little support since most people over that area have to drive long distance to use the train. Why pay for something you never going to use it?
The biggest problem right now is funding. Since right now there are only two counties pay for the train, there is lack of funding. So people who currently in Dekalb and Fulton are fighting for new station. North Fulton folks upset because Atlanta Metro authory seems to give beltline more priority over new station in NorthPoint mall even though North Fulton folks pay majority of tax.
Also at current situation, The whole county has to pass 1c sale tax to fund MARTA. That's just very difficult to pass in large county like Gwinnett. However, some of lawmakers try to change that requirement. Maybe a portion of county can vote for tax increase in its district only. This way West Gwinnett get tax increase and get train.
Basically, the funding is big problem. Unless state provide additional funding (unlikely under governor Purdue), there will be slow going for any expansion.
Having access to MARTA never improved any area in Greator Atlanta. There is no way I would want MARTA to encroach further outside of Atlanta ruining more communities. If you like living in the City, stay in the city. If you don't like driving from one of the outside countys to downtown Atlanta - then don't work there. Just because some people don't like traffic is no reason to screw up a perfectly good town that doesn't want anything to do with Atlanta.
There is a thing called compromise, which isn't in many people's lingo here.
Years ago, the last time Gwinnett voters had the chance, the proposal was to build 3 MARTA stations through Gwinnett, but they were in residential areas, and many people had the opinion above - that it would "ruin" their areas, so they voted no. Well guess what? Those areas (Duluth, etc) already have extremely high crime areas now *without* MARTA there. Pssssst..."the crooks have CARS!".
The compromise? Build the MARTA stations outside of residential areas - build them in already existing industrial areas with large parking lots. People living in those burbs already have cars - the purpose is to get cars off the roads - they'll drive their cars to those stations, park them, and ride the train into the city or other areas - outside of any residential areas people feel may be "tainted" if a rail station were close. They don't have to have "live/work/ride" type of areas in the burbs - just rail in general with generous parking facilities to take the cars coming into the city.
I know of no one in Atlanta that likes the traffic. However I know of many people who hate MARTA - hate it so much that they would move away from it. MARTA has done nothing to eliminate traffic. There is no question that lower income people rely on MARTA. Why would someone who spent $800,000 on a house in an area that doesn't have MARTA want a MARTA station to move in, opening the path for cheap condos, cheap appartments, more burger and frenchfry eateries, and cheap housing all around the new MARTA stop? That's exactly what MARTA brings to an area - crap!
Talk about ruining an established area... well, of course, some may not like how a builder will come into your neighborhood, offer you one-third of what your property is really worth, then try to use Imminent Domain seizures to secure property if there is any resistance, in order to BUILD those "$800,000 homes" so they can make a personal financial killing. Those $800,000 homes built of cheap plywood, 10 feet apart, with fake stone on the front and cheap looking siding on the sides and back to make the people buying them think they're actually getting a quality home - you mean THOSE homes that would be "ruined" by transit being nearby?
So what makes the upper-crust of Atlanta different from any other larger city, then? In Washington DC, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and other cities, there are literal MANSIONS that sit within walking distance of mass transit. Those people didn't pack up and move. There are already many examples of high-end housing in Buckhead and Brookhaven within walking distance of the current MARTA stations and no one moved away from them.. and people seek them out. So are we in some sort of alternate reality in your own neighborhood that is literally different than every other major city?
For that matter, how many cities have actually opened up transit stops near "$800,000" homes? They open them near job centers, city centers or town squares, hotel districts, malls, or in areas where they can have parking for surburban drivers. I have not seen any city, even proposals from MARTA in the past, that place stations in the middle of existing high-end subdivisions.
I have a feeling that YOU would move - but not so sure about everyone else. No one would be happy with a heavy rail station opening 100 feet from an estate property... but don't make it sound like high-end housing cannot exist near mass transit without criminals taking over. The evening news seems to show that the crooks are doing just fine taking over the suburbs in their SUVs as they are now... mass transit not needed.
Nah- that's the same argument that was used 10 years ago- only then it read something like "maybe when they are paying $3.00 a gallon for gas they will change their minds".
Bob
I agree. I'm from NY and were called 'Rude', but people from Georgia are 'Closed Minded' and don't believe in change. Gas can go up to $6.00 a gallon and people will still buy the "Trucks". The only thing georgians seem to want is for Property Values to Rise and Property Taxed to get Lowered.
By no way am I mocking anybody, just sharing my views. Can't be considered a Major City without Major public Transportation.
Another issue could be race. I have ridden CCT and the vast majority of riders are either black or hispanic and usually poor. It was the same way when I tried out the MARTA. Many people may not admit this but part of the issue of voiding MARTA is race.
Well, it's always been race, really. Actually, decades ago when MARTA was under construction, Cobb and Gwinnett DID say they would be part of it - then when they were asked to start contributing to the system that was still being built, they declined to pay up and pulled out. Somewhere online there used to be a map someone had posted of the original MARTA rail proposed line. If things had gone as planned and no one pulled out, MARTA would currently run through Gwinnett and many areas of Cobb as well.
There are still controversies today. A few years back, the Mayor of Smyrna at the time had a number of CCT bus stops removed from various locations within the city limits of Smyrna, dramatically reducing the number of stops for all CCT routes within the city limits. Even the transfer station at Cumberland was purposely placed across a busy multi-lane street from Cumberland mall for "certain reasons". He was basically saying (in less obvious wording) that it was causing Mexicans and Blacks to move out along highway 41, and by severely limiting the number of bus stops available, it would cause "them" to move further north, or south, but not within Smyrna. This was reported on the media for a few days, but as with most stories, it faded as more trendy stories took away interest.
Regarding class/income/race... it's established that most people who ride regular stop-to-stop bus service are people who cannot afford cars. Therefore, if you ride a bus (MARTA, CCT, or Gwinnett transit) yes, you will most likely be on there with lower-income people. Rail attracts a much broader group of riders, from business people to tourists, to those who want to leave a car at home, and yes, also "carless" people. This is again where compromise comes in... I don't think anyone is proposing that block-to-block bus service be established in high-dollar subdivisions throughout every suburb... only that mass rail with large capacity parking lots be brought further out to get suburban cars off the roads.
Well, the blue trains aren't bad but the orange ones literally smell like ****!
I'm a proponent for mass transit, just not rail. atlgreg, you are right on about the park n ride, I do it now. The problem is the cost of rail compared to the actual number of people that use it. That's why I'm a proponent of the Bus Rapid Transit (Bus only lanes, or at least seperated HOV lanes.
Most of the traffic issues are getting to the perimeter, not inside the perimeter. I don't see the point of driving to perimeter mall and then hopping on Marta to go downtown. You're only a few miles away and not that bad traffic from there.
I'm an alumn of GT and they constantly have GTRI proposing projects. This month's alumni magazine has an article called 'Disconnect the Connector'. You can google it to read it.
Their study says that ~50% of the trips on the downtown connector originate outside 285 and have destinations OUTSIDE the perimeter. About 75% of the connector traffic passes thru, with only 25% actually using the highway to access the central business district.
They actually propose cutting the lanes to 6 instead of 12 and forcing others to use 285 as well as expansion of mass transit. good article and interesting. They're premise is just to get people talking, stating that most major cities don't have a major interstate right thru the middle.
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