Who thinks the MARTA should be expanded to include Cobb,Gwinnett, and the other metro Atlanta counties? (Macon: renting, condos)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by JPD

This is what Atlanta needs:

CfPT (http://www.cfpt.org/pages/wctv - broken link)

That is what we need. Sadly, our Governor is the problem. He wouldn't agree to this, but perhaps a letter to congressmen would help, hopefully.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Well, this is part of the problem. If it's not convenient for them, people vote against MARTA. It's one reason why there does need to be a regional transit agency that is given back the power to just expand it without votes. Just do it. If they don't like it, they can move.

No, Atlanta is not a "dense" city such as New York or Chicago. And no, we will never have a NYC style subway system with stations every block on every corner of the city - nor do we need that. That doesn't mean that rail can't help with traffic or that it doesn't need to be expanded, however.

There needs to be rail up to Alpharetta, West to Douglasville, East to Conyers, Northeast to Suwanee, and Northwest to Kennesaw, as well as South to near Peachtree City. At the end of each line would be parking facilities for 2500+ cars, and there would be a couple of stations in-between the existing lines and the end of each extended line, each with parking lots. Not only would this eliminate thousands of cars off the roads that would instead park in the lots, but, there are countless others who would be "dropped off" by a spouse or friend at the stations as well, leaving their cars at home, again leaving even more cars off the road. On top of taking cars off the roads, it would also give people an option to getting into/out of the city and other areas simply to avoid driving in traffic, avoiding gridlock due to accidents, etc. This type of system still gives people in all corners of the heaviest burbs to drive to a station and park, and ride the train into town or to one of the other areas, yet doesn't cost billions by trying to put a station on every block, either.

Express buses are little more than a gimmick. They hold relatively few people, take few cars off the road, run infrequently, and get caught in the same traffic tie-ups and accidents as any car on the pavement. An express bus system works best in smaller to mid-sized cities, not a gridlock king like Atlanta, L.A., or DC.

Yes, rail needs to be expanded. Yes, we need to forego the voting process and just build them where they're needed, period. No, under current state, local and MARTA leadership, it won't happen anytime soon at all.

I couldn't agree more with you on this!

[gt6974a]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Well, this is part of the problem. If it's not convenient for them, people vote against MARTA. It's one reason why there does need to be a regional transit agency that is given back the power to just expand it without votes. Just do it. If they don't like it, they can move..

So if the taxpayers can't vote, who's going to pay for this and how, are you proposing just forcing another tax on people?

The whole 'If they don't like it, then they can move.." statement I don't agree with.

That's like natives telling transplants... that you sell your small house up North for alot of money, buy a huge house down here in the burbs, contributing to sprawl, work downtown, then complain about diversity, traffic, souther culture, etc. Then why did you move here, if you don't like it, move!

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Express buses are little more than a gimmick. They hold relatively few people, take few cars off the road, run infrequently, and get caught in the same traffic tie-ups and accidents as any car on the pavement. An express bus system works best in smaller to mid-sized cities, not a gridlock king like Atlanta, L.A., or DC.
.

Well, as more people use them they add more buses, and if the demand was there they could use the Bus-Rapid Transit System with an HOV/BUS lane. Every month, more and more people are taking the park and ride.

The I-75 proposal has 2 HOV lanes, and 2 Truck lanes going through Cobb County on 75. The bus would be in one of these or have their own. Yes, the bus doesn't save much time now, but if that HOV lane went from 285 to 92 North, I'd save alot of time everyday.

Marta can't even keep up with it's current costs much less expansion. That's why they had to vote on the Tax now to sustain Marta for the next 20+ years.

Adding to the traffic woes and worse is the amount of freight traffic that is supposed to increase in the future. That's why these truck lanes have been proposed on the I-75 study.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

So if the taxpayers can't vote, who's going to pay for this and how, are you proposing just forcing another tax on people?
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My reply: Actually - yes. If given a choice, people will NEVER "vote" for change. Heck they won't even accept switching from a dollar bill to a dollar coin for crying out loud - why? Because they have a choice. Stop printing dollar bills, and say, "this is your new dollar coin - that's it!". Likewise, the region needs MORE transit options. Just build it, tax it, and if folks think 1% on their cigs and beer is going to bankrupt them, then yes, they can move.
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The I-75 proposal has 2 HOV lanes, and 2 Truck lanes going through Cobb County on 75. The bus would be in one of these or have their own. Yes, the bus doesn't save much time now, but if that HOV lane went from 285 to 92 North, I'd save alot of time everyday.
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My Reply: This doesn't take away from the fact that whenever there is a traffic accident (which is daily), many times ALL LANES are blocked and backed up - including HOV lanes, and including any express buses that are on those lanes. Now, one proposal shows lanes that ONLY allow express buses on them, and are elevated and separated from regular traffic lanes - similar to a raised rail track only paved for buses only. Sounds good, but such a thing would cost so much you might as well do a light or heavy rail system.

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Marta can't even keep up with it's current costs much less expansion.
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My reply: There's no doubt (and I've made the comment before) that MARTA is run by morons. In the past we've seen corruption investigations, money mismanagement, and even a CEO get arrested for "acts" in a public bathroom at the airport. They're run by idiots, and yes, a change in leadership is in order... or for that matter, a whole new secondary rail system under different leadership and authority, etc.

Either way, cars or express buses are NOT enough in a city like Atlanta as it is today, and will grow in the future.

[Merin]

What about a commuter rail? In the DC Metro area there is the VRE( for Virginia) and MARC( for Maryland). These are actually commuter trains, with limited hours (5am-8pm M-F) . Also Atlantagregs point about people not wanting change is dead on.

[ATLienGirl]

It doesn't matter if Marta is expanded or not, because of the amount of people moving here and the amount of money it would take to even give MARTA a "make over", there is going to always be a traffic problem whether Marta is expanded or not. Atlanta and the surrounding areas are just too spread out and I don't think expanding Marta is going to help anything; people are STILL going to drive whether there is a rail system near their homes or not. Look at all the people that are doing it NOW when Marta is very much close to their homes. The solutions are simple; either move close to Marta or work near your home. With most people, neither is possible.

It also would be feasible to take a look at what Marta stands for: METROPOLITAN ATLANTA RAPID TRANSIT AUTHORITY. Metro Atlanta people, not Cobb, not Gwinnett. Places surrounding ATLANTA, in other words, places within or very close to 285. When they expanded Marta up 400, that got people's hopes up like they could do it to other places; Marta was pushing it when they did that. People did not really say anything until traffic got worse and worse over the years. And the amount of traffic coming to and from 400 is STILL terrible even with the Dunwoody and North Springs stations in place. This goes back to my first point.

So it's not that I want it or do not want it, but, we need to look at what Marta stands for; otherwise, contract another transit system that will serve Atlanta, Metro Atlanta, and the suburbs and call it something else. Or create a "Suburban Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority" (Sarta) Metro ATLANTA means cities close to ATLANTA such as East Point, College Park, parts of Decatur and DeKalb Atlanta to name a few, you know, all the places that people are warned to AVOID when moving here. Metro COUNTIES are those counties adjacent to Fulton County where Atlanta is the County Seat; those would be Cobb, DeKalb, Clayton, Gwinnett, Douglas (I'm missing one other one, I can't think). Marta was not created to serve METRO COUNTIES it was created to serve METRO ATLANTA.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

Marta can't even keep up with it's current costs much less expansion.
.

This is because, unlike transit systems in other cities, MARTA gets ZERO state funding. That needs to change, or the state needs to fund a system like the one proposed by Citizens for Progressive Transit.

[atlantamoi]

ATlienGirl, you make some interesting points, but do other major cities with rail transit not go out into neighboring counties? Whatever it takes to get a rail system county-wide should be done. Even if the name changes to Spongebob Transit Authority. You say people are still going to drive with a train station near their home. I'll bet you that those far out places like Suwanee and Peachtree City would see a huge amount of people riding a train into town. Even if people in Sandy Springs feel close enough to drive, they could see their commutes ease up with people farther out taking a train.

The lines are already partly built in the right directions. Just keep them going out. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[xxman777]

Originally Posted by ATLienGirl

It also would be feasible to take a look at what Marta stands for: METROPOLITAN ATLANTA RAPID TRANSIT AUTHORITY. Metro Atlanta people, not Cobb, not Gwinnett. Places surrounding ATLANTA, in other words, places within or very close to 285. When they expanded Marta up 400, that got people's hopes up like they could do it to other places; Marta was pushing it when they did that. People did not really say anything until traffic got worse and worse over the years. And the amount of traffic coming to and from 400 is STILL terrible even with the Dunwoody and North Springs stations in place. This goes back to my first point.

So it's not that I want it or do not want it, but, we need to look at what Marta stands for; otherwise, contract another transit system that will serve Atlanta, Metro Atlanta, and the suburbs and call it something else. Or create a "Suburban Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority" (Sarta) Metro ATLANTA means cities close to ATLANTA such as East Point, College Park, parts of Decatur and DeKalb Atlanta to name a few, you know, all the places that people are warned to AVOID when moving here. Metro COUNTIES are those counties adjacent to Fulton County where Atlanta is the County Seat; those would be Cobb, DeKalb, Clayton, Gwinnett, Douglas (I'm missing one other one, I can't think). Marta was not created to serve METRO COUNTIES it was created to serve METRO ATLANTA.

Metropolitan refers to region or in this case the Atlanta region. It doesn't just include Atlanta and some select cities close by, but all areas which contribute to activity which makes up the Atlanta region. This means Atlanta and all its suburbs are included when you talk about Metropolitan area. MARTA was originally intended to serve Clayton, Cobb, Dekalb, Gwinnett and Fulton counties, not just Fulton and Dekalb. As the region grows other areas should be included. The other counties just didn't (and still don't) want it.

[Prichard]

Having access to MARTA never improved any area in Greator Atlanta. There is no way I would want MARTA to encroach further outside of Atlanta ruining more communities. If you like living in the City, stay in the city. If you don't like driving from one of the outside countys to downtown Atlanta - then don't work there. Just because some people don't like traffic is no reason to screw up a perfectly good town that doesn't want anything to do with Atlanta.