Atlanta as an Intercity Rail Hub? (Macon, East Point: transfer, price, move)

[SEAandATL]

This is why I like Japan's way of doing things. Instead of depending on the government and tax dollars, they have private sectors to fund the rails and roads. Even during a recession, they are constantly building new train lines and expressways. The link below is an example of a company called Odakyu, which operates a heavily traveled commuter corridor between Tokyo and the suburban Kanagawa Prefecture:

Odakyu Electric Railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I love the Japanese business sense. In addition to transport, the parent company Odakyu Group also operates retail and many other services to bring in revenue. They should try something like that in Metro Atlanta.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Well, the transportation sales tax expires by its own terms in 10 years.

Regarding the 400 toll, from what I heard most people wanted to keep it in place so long as the money is used for improving and maintaining GA 400. Ix-nay if they try to use it somewhere else.

Most people? Who sez? They didn't ask me! Besides, the toll was supposed to go away so there should have been a referendum to decide to keep it!

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Most people? Who sez? They didn't ask me!

Well, most people who spoke up about it. There were a number of meetings and opportunities for input and the consensus seemed to be for keeping the toll in place, on the condition that the money be used strictly for maintenance and improving GA 400. There was vehement opposition to keeping the toll in place unless it could be verified that the money would not be squandered on something else.

Obviously most people don't enjoy paying taxes, but they're a lot more inclined to go along with it if they can perceive the benefit. Tolls are a great example -- they're user fees that apply only to those who utilize the road in question. If you don't use 400 then you don't pay the toll. If you do, you pay a small fee to help keep it up and improve it.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Well, most people who spoke up about it. There were a number of meetings and opportunities for input and the consensus seemed to be for keeping the toll in place, on the condition that the money be used strictly for maintenance and improving GA 400. There was vehement opposition to keeping the toll in place unless it could be verified that the money would not be squandered on something else.

Obviously most people don't enjoy paying taxes, but they're a lot more inclined to go along with it if they can perceive the benefit. Tolls are a great example -- they're user fees that apply only to those who utilize the road in question. If you don't use 400 then you don't pay the toll. If you do, you pay a small fee to help keep it up and improve it.

I agree with user fees but they said when Georgia 400 was paid for, the toll would go away. Holding meetings like that to decide to renege on their promise was wrong. It panders to activists who tend to be socialist in their mindset so that result was not surprising.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I agree with user fees but they said when Georgia 400 was paid for, the toll would go away.

Well, it would have gone away if that's what the public had pushed for. The Transportation Board was emphatic about that all along. However, the consensus that emerged was to keep the toll in place, premised on the condition that all revenue be limited strictly to maintaining and improving GA 400.

Holding meetings like that to decide to renege on their promise was wrong. It panders to activists who tend to be socialist in their mindset so that result was not surprising.

I can assure you that the "activists" in favor of this were about as from socialists as you can get. They're mostly hard-nosed businessmen who want to make sure the investment in 400 doesn't get frittered away in some sort of bureaucratic jungle. As you know, 400 was built over enormous opposition from the neighborhoods and it is highly unlikely an intown project like that could ever be built again. GA 400 is a transit corridor as well as a critical roadway, and it's the primary link from Buckhead to Perimeter, Roswell, North Fulton and Forsyth.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Well, it would have gone away if that's what the public had pushed for. The Transportation Board was emphatic about that all along. However, the consensus that emerged was to keep the toll in place, premised on the condition that all revenue be limited strictly to maintaining and improving GA 400.





I can assure you that the "activists" in favor of this were about as from socialists as you can get. They're mostly hard-nosed businessmen who want to make sure the investment in 400 doesn't get frittered away in some sort of bureaucratic jungle. As you know, 400 was built over enormous opposition from the neighborhoods and it is highly unlikely an intown project like that could ever be built again. GA 400 is a transit corridor as well as a critical roadway, and it's the primary link from Buckhead to Perimeter, Roswell, North Fulton and Forsyth.

Pandering to big business? Even worse! Still, it's not representative of "the public". The extension of the Georgia 400 toll to fund other projects is unethical.

[AnsleyPark]

Why is it unethical, Mathman? It actually seems sensible to me.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by cwlawrence

Yeah, I totally agree. Large-scale projects that have far reaching economic impacts should fund themselves; we shouldn't have to pay for things that benefit us. The "job-creators" should be especially exempt from having to foot the bill, as their hard earned dollars bolstered by the very same government-funded programs, will eventually trickle down to everyone else just the way jesus and the founding fathers intended.

First of all, I'd like to thank Bernie Marcus for the Georgia Aquarium and making it self-supporting.

What far reaching economic impact does the multimodal station have? High Speed rail? Doesn't even exist here. Amtrak station? We have one on Peachtree. Suburban commuter rail? Doesn't exist. GRTA, CCT, and Gwinnett Transit? They stop on Peachtree and at MARTA rail stations like Civic Center. Greyhound station connection? It's beside Garnett station.

Seems like an expensive "build it and they will come" project. But we could sell the bonds to build it and add a surcharge to the tickets to finance the debt. Undoubtably the response will be to build an HSR to Atlanta, commuter rail lines will quickly spring up. Not sure if the commuter bus lines will find the mutlimodal station easier to get to than say Arts Center and Civic Center. The multimodal station doesn't exactly drop the suburban commuters right in Atlanta's business district.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Why is it unethical, Mathman? It actually seems sensible to me.

How is it sensible?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

How is it sensible?

For the reasons I've explained earlier:

1. It's a user fee. Only people who want to use 400 pay the toll. The tolls don't burden anyone else.

2. The tolls were extended only after public hearings, when it became apparent that the weight of opinion favored keeping them plus ON THE CONDITION that the revenue be strictly limited to the maintenance and improvement of GA 400.

3. GA 400 is unique in that it serves as both a transit corridor and a vital link between the city and the northern suburbs. It would be politically impossible and cost prohibitive to attempt another intown project of that scale.

4. GA 400 needs dedicated funding for improvements now, such as the I-85 ramps and the Hammond Drive interchange. Additional dedicated funding will be required for similar improvements in the future. With secure dedicated funding you can move forward with specific plans and improvements now, instead of piddling around waiting for some half-baked plan to emerge from the bureaucratic mishmash.

5. The tolls only apply to a small section of GA 400, when it enters the central city. That's consistent with the policy of reducing auto traffic in the most congested areas.