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The whole argument is pointless. See, I grew up in LaGrange. Down there, the "good school" to go to was the academy. They had better academics than the other 3 high schools but the problem is..even with the tons of money people were spending to send their kids there, just as many kids graduating from LaGrange High & Troup High were going to top notch colleges.
When it comes to high school, I don't put much stock at all in that ranking mess.
I hear you and if you were comparing say Grady to Chattachoee you might be on the money, but many of the S. DeKalb high schools don't stack up quite as well.
There are as many Lithonia High and MLK High students NOT attending their home schools as there are who are attending it. (For the most part, it is not the weakest and most troubled students who are transferring.) There has been tremendous brain drain and resource drain from these schools.
About twenty years ago, many of the schools in S. DeKalb were represented by a board member whose solution to parents' concerns about the schools was to get those parents' children transfers. This was a successful strategy for the board member, she was reelected many times and in the meantime, managed to prevent any real improvements in her community's schools.
We still have board members who want to blame every thing that is wrong with our schools on "north DeKalb" and who do little to get at the root of the problem -- including hiring a top notch superintendent from a large school system with a proven record. I hope the one they picked can do the job -- if they really want her too.
My frustration lies with people who buy homes in these school districts and then demand transfers because they didn't know enough about their assigned schools -- the data is all out there.
I doubt she did it because she wanted to be around white people. She did it because she could afford to and it's clearly the best part of the city to be in if you can afford it.
If you want to argue that there are areas of Lithonia that are just as good as Buckhead or Ansley Park and are using the argument that people just don't think so because those areas are black, you truly have your head firmly planted in the sand.
I hear you and if you were comparing say Grady to Chattachoee you might be on the money, but many of the S. DeKalb high schools don't stack up quite as well.
There are as many Lithonia High and MLK High students NOT attending their home schools as there are who are attending it. (For the most part, it is not the weakest and most troubled students who are transferring.) There has been tremendous brain drain and resource drain from these schools.
About twenty years ago, many of the schools in S. DeKalb were represented by a board member whose solution to parents' concerns about the schools was to get those parents' children transfers. This was a successful strategy for the board member, she was reelected many times and in the meantime, managed to prevent any real improvements in her community's schools.
We still have board members who want to blame every thing that is wrong with our schools on "north DeKalb" and who do little to get at the root of the problem -- including hiring a top notch superintendent from a large school system with a proven record. I hope the one they picked can do the job -- if they really want her too.
My frustration lies with people who buy homes in these school districts and then demand transfers because they didn't know enough about their assigned schools -- the data is all out there.
Now--this is also a good post. Thank you for telling the full story (brief version) of the reason behind the state of South DeKalb schools.
Brain drain and the failed M to M program are two of the biggest issues with the schools in South DeKalb. The money that was spent just to transport the South DeKalb kids to schools in North DeKalb could have been better used to improve the schools in South DeKalb. The parents who are really concerned about their kids education either have them in schools in North or Central DeKalb, or in private schools. Many of the kids left in the South DeKalb schools come from socioeconomic backgrounds where educations isn't necessarily a priority. The parents don't attend PTSA meetings, neither do they demand the same quality education and facilities as the parents in the central and northern parts of the county do.
Sooner or later people are going to realize that whole "great school" thing in relation to public schools..with the exception of a select few is a wash. Your kid isn't guaranteed to be any smarter or better educated graduating from North Gwinnett than they are graduating from Tri Cities. If you believe these "rankings" it's basically all going to come down to sending your kid to a white school. It is what it is. That's what folks dance around but rather than just saying it they use the whole "ranking" angle.
Kinda like the discussion on here about hbcu's being terrible choices even though they produce more successful black college grads than non black schools do. This board is always good for a laugh.
I respectfully disagree (to a point). While it is true that a lot has to do with how smart your child is, how hard they work, parental involvement, etc- none of which has to do with the quality of the school, there are a lot of factors your are leaving out which does. The quality of teachers, the types and amount of classes (and the ability to get in those classes- Honors, IB, AP), your peer group, and safety and comfort do have a lot to do with how your child performs. It is a fact, poorer schools may not have a lot of the amenities that a lot of the richer schools (such as in Sandy Springs, Buckhed, etc) have. Unfortunately the school funding comes from test scores, property taxes, etc, so it a never ending circle. But if your child is worried for his safety, sweating his butt off because the school cant afford air conditioning, etc he just isnt going to be able to concentrate as well. If they dont have the a.p. classes or have a limited number of seats (and dont get in) than they may not be challenged enough, and def will not be as competitive relative to their peers applying for college. And your peers have a huge thing to do with it. I dont have links to research by me, but it has been shown that peers challenge each other, that means if there are a higher number of kids doing well- getting high test scores, etc, than that will challenge your child to do better also. It ha been mentioned a lot of times how it is discouraged in the "black culture" (in certain areas not all black culture) to do well because it is not cool and you are "agreeing with the man" or whatever. While HBCU's do have a higher number of successful black grads the overall school scores are still lower than the "white schools" (for example take the "best" HBCU verses the best "white school". Those schools also have less students go to Ivy League schools, etc. Its not even close (now of course I am oversimplifying things and we could write a book about this as perhaps more black students from those schools apply to black colleges, etc). Why is that? Is it because the tests are biased against black students? I seriously doubt it. My guess is because the schools dont have the same resources. Now this argument only holds true for the op in which she/he stated they could move anywhere in the city and so we are talking about the possibility of moving to the "best" school in the area. If not then the argument changes quite a bit.
King High School scored higher in the recent GHSWT than the majority of high schools in DeKalb County. In fact, out the 26 DeKalb County High Schools, MLK's scores were equal to Cross Keys, Druid Hills, and Southwest Dekalb. The only schools that outperformed MLK in this regard are Chamblee, Dunwoody, DeKalb School of the Arts, and (gasp!...) Arabia Mountain. (Arabia scored higher than Dunwoody and was equal to Chamblee BTW...)
Secondly, MLK is one of only three high schools in DeKalb with an IB Program. Tucker and Druid Hills are the others. The IB Program is open to anyone as long as the student has taken at least two years of a foreign language by their junior year and has a GPA of at least 3.2. There is no cap on the number of students they will accept into the program at this point. So if you are complaining that your child can't get in, is that really the fault of the school? The same is true for AP. Those are also the same standards for DHHS and Tucker. All three IB Coordinators meet formally once month (and frequently speak informally) to develop ways to bolster the programs.
Y'know, Maynard Jackson (near Grant Park, ie intown Atlanta) is trying to become an IB School. Do you know which is the first school they called for assistance in this endeavor? Martin Luther King High School in Lithonia, GA.
When I went to Greatschools.org a few minutes ago, the latest and most relevant response seemed quite positive to me...
Arabia Mountain does not turn away anyone that lives in their attendance zone. If you live outside the attendance area, then you may have to be placed on a lottery or waiting list. If you live in the school district and it is your home school, you just go... But some still choose MLK.
Lastly, before the Thanksgiving holiday, I have personally spoken to MLK seniors that have been accepted to Princeton and Yale. I have also personally spoken to numerous parents who have left South DeKalb schools and returned because of the positive advancements in the aforementioned schools. They have also stated, that aside from a more diverse population, there is little difference in terms of education. In fact, I have heard teachers from the North DeKalb schools that have come to the aforementioned South DeKalb schools surprisingly make similar observations.
So, all in all, don't believe the hype, I suggest you make an appointment with the principals of MLK, Arabia Mountain, Stephenson, and/or SWD, and go see for yourself. In fact, when you do, please let us know what you think...
Good Luck...
Oh and I forgot to mention, about those students that were accepted to Princeton and Yale... they were both on free and reduced lunch... go figure.
Last edited by equinox63; 11-28-2011 at 08:06 PM..
Arabia Mt doesn't have an attendance zone. You are wrong about that. It is totally a school of choice. It has the most difficult application process in the county.
It is a great school, no doubt, but DeKalb will continue to fail if only kids in special programs or smart kids can get a decent education.
I am glad you are hearing positive things. (The IB programme at all three DCSS schools is very small and needs to be combined into one school.) I know many students who have done well at even the lowest performing schools in DeKalb. I know poor kids at every DeKalb school, north and south, who are succeeding and beating the odds. They are the exception.
The reality is that there are hundreds of students from MLK and Lithonia are not at their home high school. I attend a bunches of meetings and at nearly every one, where public comment is allowed, there are parents begging for transfers. At my most recent meeting, two parents from two S. DeKalb high schools, spoke passionately to the new superintendent about how their children were not prepared for college and were struggling.
In my experience, too many people move into S. DeKalb without a clear understanding of the school situation. We are now out of room at our N. DeKalb high schools. Lakeside, Druid Hills, Dunwoody etc have no more room for transfers. If you buy a home in S. DeKalb, and don't get into a choice program, the option of administrative transfer, once very common, is now gone.
It is important to note that in the last 8 years SAT scores have dropped precipitously in DeKalb County especially for African-American Students. in 2002, African-American students in DeKalb scored an average 867 on the math and verbal sections of the SAT which was 17 points HIGHER than the National average. In 2010, African-American students in DeKalb scored an average 839 on the math and verbal sections of the SAT which is 25 points LOWER than the national average.
If we don't acknowledge the problem, it won't be fixed.
Because a few kids (at any school, regardless of location) are doing well, doesn't mean the entire school or system is succeeding. That was one of the early goals of No Child Left Behind -- exposing the little things instead of the big picture. IN this one area, NCLB has been successful.
I am so incredibly frustrated with DeKalb schools because I believe the system is doing and has done irreparable harm to the children who can least afford it. Our Board is horrible and because there was no massive cheating scandal, their behavior has essentially been ignored and overlooked. Unlike Atlanta, where at least Kasim Reed stepped in, there is no leadership from anywhere in DeKalb demanding better for these children. It is heartbreaking.
It isn't impossible to get a good education in DeKalb, it is just a lot harder than it should be and than it is in other systems.
Last edited by lastminutemom; 11-28-2011 at 08:47 PM..
Arabia Mt doesn't have an attendance zone. You are wrong about that. It is totally a school of choice.
I do not think this is true... Perhaps this was the case when it first opened. But I've heard parents and students that live near the school discuss their option to attend the school because of where they live in proximity to the school. Arabia Mt. took a lot of MLK students when it opened, but I have never heard of a student that lives on the doorstep of Arabia Mt. being turned away because they were not chosen...
Of course, some parents who do not like uniforms or have poor performing students can opt NOT to attend Arabia Mountain, And I have known Arabia Mountain to kick out poor performing students, but I've never know them to not accept them off the bat.
But I guess I could be wrong... I just sorta doubt it.
Arabia Mt doesn't have an attendance zone. You are wrong about that. It is totally a school of choice. It has the most difficult application process in the county.
It is a great school, no doubt, but DeKalb will continue to fail if only kids in special programs or smart kids can get a decent education.
I am glad you are hearing positive things. (The IB programme at all three DCSS schools is very small and needs to be combined into one school.) I know many students who have done well at even the lowest performing schools in DeKalb. I know poor kids at every DeKalb school, north and south, who are succeeding and beating the odds. They are the exception.
The reality is that there are hundreds of students from MLK and Lithonia are not at their home high school. I attend a bunches of meetings and at nearly every one, where public comment is allowed, there are parents begging for transfers. At my most recent meeting, two parents from two S. DeKalb high schools, spoke passionately to the new superintendent about how their children were not prepared for college and were struggling.
In my experience, too many people move into S. DeKalb without a clear understanding of the school situation. We are now out of room at our N. DeKalb high schools. Lakeside, Druid Hills, Dunwoody etc have no more room for transfers. If you buy a home in S. DeKalb, and don't get into a choice program, the option of administrative transfer, once very common, is now gone.
It is important to note that in the last 8 years SAT scores have dropped precipitously in DeKalb County especially for African-American Students. in 2002, African-American students in DeKalb scored an average 867 on the math and verbal sections of the SAT which was 17 points HIGHER than the National average. In 2010, African-American students in DeKalb scored an average 839 on the math and verbal sections of the SAT which is 25 points LOWER than the national average.
If we don't acknowledge the problem, it won't be fixed.
Because a few kids (at any school, regardless of location) are doing well, doesn't mean the entire school or system is succeeding. That was one of the early goals of No Child Left Behind -- exposing the little things instead of the big picture. IN this one area, NCLB has been successful.
I am so incredibly frustrated with DeKalb schools because I believe the system is doing and has done irreparable harm to the children who can least afford it. Our Board is horrible and because there was no massive cheating scandal, their behavior has essentially been ignored and overlooked. Unlike Atlanta, where at least Kasim Reed stepped in, there is no leadership from anywhere in DeKalb demanding better for these children. It is heartbreaking.
It isn't impossible to get a good education in DeKalb, it is just a lot harder than it should be and than it is in other systems.
Duly noted... So what do you suggest we do? It seems like you are saying that giving up and/or running away is the answer.
Princeton says "by mid-December" which I suppose would include before Thanksgiving, but before Thanksgiving seems startlingly early to have a decision. Princeton University | Single-Choice Early Action
I happen to be up on college admissions at present because my own child is currently a high school senior and working on college applications. It just seems quite unlikely (although, I suppose not technically impossible) that you spoke to current high school seniors who received fall 2012 admission decisions from Princeton and Yale before Thanksgiving.
For comparison, both Georgia Tech and UGA announced decisions to their respective earliest groups of applicants, the Friday before Thanksgiving. However, those people had submitted applications by October 1 and October 15, respectively, and the universities had announced that decisions would be released on November 18th.
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Fyi...
...) Arabia Mountain. (Arabia scored higher than Dunwoody and was equal to Chamblee BTW...)
