Why are Cobb/Gwinnett still averse to MARTA rail? (Atlanta: crime rate, construction)

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Yeah, exactly. The same "whining old folks" who pay all your bills. Hey, I think I hear your mama calling you. Better run along now.

Man, A Georgia tea party spoke person said they're not against Transportation reform but against the government involvement. Since when did the private build freeways, sewers and etc? This is public infrastructure. So now I guess it's socialism for the government to build infrastructure improvement like expanding roads and etc.

The tea party should have no relevance in this, this is people voting to or not taxes themselves. Not even the government pushing taxes on people but the tea party is so extreme there now against that too. There actually campaigning to get people to vote no on improving the region transportation infrastructure with a 1 Cent Sales.

You know this is going to hurt metro Atlanta if this don't pass right?

[arjay57]

Are there any polls out showing what people in Cobb think about the transportation bill?

It's fine to speculate, but it's very easy to get an erroneous impression because many times the "nays" are the most vocal. That's true of anything, not just this situation.

The Chamber of Commerce types are the ones pushing this thing, so you'd think they have done some public opinion surveys. Who's for it, who's against it, and how can you address the latter?

[Stars&StripesForever]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I almost chimed in and said that the political scenery is already vastly different....but you know what? I forgot how large Gwinett county is.

If you consider the parts along I-85 up until about Lawrenceville-Suwanee Road, I'd say it is different. But it's really easy to forget about Dacula, Loganville, Grayson, etc. If there is significant opposition, it's most likely coming from those guys.

A lot of people, myself included, forget that Gwinnett county is so large that part of it is still rural. If you go to the Gwinnett county fair, they still have livestock competitions. I think this kind of makes it a really neat county to be a part of, that we have so much diversity and so many different kinds of people....but it would be nice to get everyone on the mass transit bandwagon. Though I must admit, if I didn't commute into town every day, I would probably be against it too.

There's hardly any rural land in Gwinnett County. I don't know what you're talking about. Most of those livestock competitions are likely populated by people from all over northeast Georgia.

[Stars&StripesForever]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Mostly because you still have these idiots that think that someone is going to get on Marta, ride all the way across town to their area, vandalize their home and rob it, then get on Marta (with all of the stolen materials strapped to their back) and go back to the other side of town. Some of the dumbest logic there is basically.

That's not the way it's seen.

It's more like poor people who are alien to their way of life would flock to the area given its access to rail. Many poor people do not own a car. Thus, they'd be apt to use the rail line. If within close proximity to multi-unit housing, it's not out of the question that an element seen as undesirable by many would gain footing.

That said, the demographics of Cobb have changed so much in over half of the county, that I doubt it'd make as big an impact today as it would have done in the 80s and 90s.

[jpatlanta]

I still don't understand how people in Cobb can think poor people will flock to the area. Most folks I know already consider Cobb way poorer than Fulton and parts of Dekalb which already have Marta.
Where I work the people over 120k or so all live in Fulton and Dekalb and the lesser earners live out in places like Cobb and Cherokee where the houses are so much cheaper. If anything the people in Buckhead, Midtown etc need to be nervous that the Marta will bring in the poor folks from Cobb

If you all want a real laugh read what the idiot leader of the Cobb Tea Party says about the proposed Marta extension putting the county at risk from terrorism. Obviously he doesn't get out much other than FOX news and the gun store. Yes he really said this:

[LEFT]There is also the matter of rail being a tempting terrorist target to consider JD Van Brink said.

“If anyone doesn’t believe me — England and Spain,” Van Brink said. “Now, if we have a more decentralized mass transit system using buses, if the terrorists blow up a single bus, we can work around that. When they blow up a rail, that just brings the system to a grinding halt. So how much security are we going to have on this rail system, and how much will it cost?”



Read more: The Marietta Daily Journal - Georgia Tea Party opposes TSPLOST [/LEFT]

[ATLTJL]

There's hardly any rural land in Gwinnett County. I don't know what you're talking about.

This is just anecdotal, it's not like I have numbers to back it up.

All I can tell you is when I was going to Harbins Park I took a wrong turn and ended up on a gravel road and some of the houses on the road had goats and other animals.

On Peachtree Industrial right near highway 120, there is a large plot of land where cows are often grazing. There are lots of horse farms aroud, too.

I think there's more rural land in Gwinnett county than you think. Or maybe there's less than I think, but there is at least some.

I'm pretty sure McDaniel Farm park was an actual working farm until the 90s.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I'm pretty sure McDaniel Farm park was an actual working farm until the 90s.

I wouldn't doubt it.

Then again, many can recall driving on 285 and seeing cattle grazing in the Perimeter Mall area.

Things can change pretty fast!

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Man, A Georgia tea party spoke person said they're not against Transportation reform but against the government involvement. Since when did the private build freeways, sewers and etc? This is public infrastructure. So now I guess it's socialism for the government to build infrastructure improvement like expanding roads and etc.

Exactly. This is my problem with the so-called "Tea Party," especially in Georgia. Sure, they sell themselves as being "fiscally responsible" and "against government excess." But when it comes down to it, they're just anti-tax whatsoever. At least as far as I can tell.

I mean, the TSPLOST is the most democratic and transparent you can freaking get regarding taxes. It's not federally enforced. It's not even state or locally enforced. It's voted for or against by the public, with the projects and expenditures listed for public view.

I haven't seen a single Tea Party proposal that suggests how congestion can be dealt with if not by taxes in some form or another. They haven't proposed a single viable alternative for dealing with transportation other than via taxation. And that's the point:

There are some things in our society that require tax revenues and government involvement.

The government isn't automatically wrong or evil. Taxes are not always bad. Private firms aren't interested in taking complete charge of our roads because you can't fully capitalize transportation. It's simply not profitable. (Nor should we trust something as important as transit entirely to the whims of corporations rather than the public good. But that's a much longer argument.)

Just vote against the darn TSPLOST if you don't like the specifics of this proposal. But don't act like the very effort to create a penny tax is somehow "un-American" or "socialist" in its essence. Geez . . .

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

I haven't seen a single Tea Party proposal that suggests how congestion can be dealt with if not by taxes in some form or another. They haven't proposed a single viable alternative for dealing with transportation other than via taxation.

As I understand it their argument is that taxes are plenty high already and that the solution is just to get rid of all the waste, fraud and abuse.

[AcidSnake]

The only way to get rid of fraud, waste, and abuse is by simply voting out the people committing the fraud, waste, and abuse. Also I would submit that fraud, waste, and abuse is in the eye of the beholder.

Because some of these so-called less-government-intervention "conservatives" like their government benefits as long as it's only them that's receiving the benefits. More conflicted logic as usual from the other side of the political spectrum.

One more truth that folks tend to skate over: these Tea Party folks have a considerably huge & influential amount of social conservatives in their ranks. It's funny how they want to come together like their message is so full of purity and without taint; And yet, the Tea Party group will react to the same dog-whistle messages of "traditional values" that their conservative predecessors during the 1950s thru 1970s reacted to as well. The 2010 election bore witness to people who simply voted in anyone who had an "R" next to their name into office regardless of whether or not they were fit for office.

Because of this situation we now have a collection of Georgia politicians who run the gamut of professional foibles; from filing for bankruptcy for running their businesses into the ground, being sued by the feds for running their businesses into the ground, or a combination of both. Oh...did I mention that some of these politicians were Tea Party favorites? See http://tomgraves.house.gov/

So the result is that these Tea Party folks will continually vote in the same politician who will commit the same fraud, waste, and abuse. As long as the politicians can carry the message that "those people will not get your benefits!!!" they will be repeatedly voted into office...and continue the same fraud, waste, and abuse. So much for "throwing the bums out."

And the band marches on.

Originally Posted by arjay57

As I understand it their argument is that taxes are plenty high already and that the solution is just to get rid of all the waste, fraud and abuse.