2012 Atlanta Region Transportation Referendum (Clayton, Newton: demographics, economy, residents)

[bernsee]

T-SPLOST was clearly not the answer to Atlanta's traffic problems. I don't know if anything really is. In other cities like Chicago, DC, NY, Boston, Philly, San Fran, commuter rail and subways work because those cities are densely populated and the major job centers are mostly downtown. Atlanta is much more sprawled out and the job centers are all over the place and not really downtown. People here hate government and they hate taxes so this plan was bound to go down.

This region pits city vs. city, county vs. county. I want to see traffic fixed but I voted No for this because I don't like the idea of Fulton County residents paying an extra tax for T-SPLOST and projects outside 285 while Cobb/Gwinnett and other counties don't pay into MARTA at all. That's disgraceful. The whole idea of what's in it for me and I don't care what happens outside my county or my city is so ridiculous. We live and die as a region.

Fixing roads or building new roads is window dressing. The only thing that'll have an impact is some sort of commuter rail along highway corridors like they do in Chicago where the commuter rail and subway lines parallel the Kennedy Expressway, the Eisenhower Expressway, the Stephenson Expressway and the Dan Ryan. There would have to be some sort of commuter rail up and down 400, I-75, I-85 and I-20 to matter at this point. Not that anyone would use it since there is such a negative stigma here about using public transportation. I really don't understand why people enjoy sitting in gridlock, wasting gas, causing wear and tear on their cars, when there is a better way. Not that we'll ever get there.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by tonygeorgia

Even though Metro Atlanta "lost" we still won because now our officials will know that we need a better plan. We need something better than two light rail lines and a million road improvements. At least we got this far having a vote. This is the first vote. Now our elected officials know what they need to do next time. Next time get rid of all the BS road projects and having mostly commuter/light/heavy rail plus a FEW road improvements

We will still continue to get new jobs here because of our large airport, our CHEAP cost of living, our geographical location, our large number of educated professionals, our high quality of living, our cheap housing market, our top notch universities, moderate climate, etc.

Well said.

The sky is not falling.

Just time to re-group and learn from this.

[Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by mike7586

No, he said the problem was with the way they advertised it and should have taken a more low key approach...

I dont know what else could have been done. The outlying counties were getting what they wanted and Fulton and Dekalb were getting a lot of what they wanted. The bill itself was tansparent and great Atlanta companies like Delta, Coca Cola, and UPS were getting behind it. High ranking Repubicans were getting behind it.

And that analyst did say that a SPLOST will not work in GA, but could work in states like Oregon or cities like Denver. The advertising could have been better sure, but at a 70-30 split, I think it was a lot more than just poor advertising.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by NY2ATL2NY

Well Said..Thats why we Need to Implement the Regional rail Plan Already...This is something we ALL Have in Common...Train Tracks Criss-Crossing Our Counties...From Cartersville To Athens...Were used to freight trains passing thru. ..Why Not Passenger service ...I Cant see why its so hard to get this off the ground here already....The Tracks are Already In Place...Now the Entire Region can get something fair and Square without one paying more than the other and It Takes HALF the Time to get It Built.. as to say.. Extending sugarloaf parkway for 300 Million Bucks over 10 Years...Or Is it Just me that this makes sense to..

You keep saying "we". Aren't you in a New Yorker? Just confused. Not sure if you are a resident.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by bernsee

T-SPLOST was clearly not the answer to Atlanta's traffic problems. I don't know if anything really is. In other cities like Chicago, DC, NY, Boston, Philly, San Fran, commuter rail and subways work because those cities are densely populated and the major job centers are mostly downtown. Atlanta is much more sprawled out and the job centers are all over the place and not really downtown. People here hate government and they hate taxes so this plan was bound to go down.

This region pits city vs. city, county vs. county. I want to see traffic fixed but I voted No for this because I don't like the idea of Fulton County residents paying an extra tax for T-SPLOST and projects outside 285 while Cobb/Gwinnett and other counties don't pay into MARTA at all. That's disgraceful. The whole idea of what's in it for me and I don't care what happens outside my county or my city is so ridiculous. We live and die as a region.

Fixing roads or building new roads is window dressing. The only thing that'll have an impact is some sort of commuter rail along highway corridors like they do in Chicago where the commuter rail and subway lines parallel the Kennedy Expressway, the Eisenhower Expressway, the Stephenson Expressway and the Dan Ryan. There would have to be some sort of commuter rail up and down 400, I-75, I-85 and I-20 to matter at this point. Not that anyone would use it since there is such a negative stigma here about using public transportation. I really don't understand why people enjoy sitting in gridlock, wasting gas, causing wear and tear on their cars, when there is a better way. Not that we'll ever get there.

People don't enjoy gridlock, but nothing in that plan was going to help the gridlock. No one voted down a commuter rail system which would stretch into those more distant suburbs.

Nothing that is done is going to provide an immediate fix, but a commuter rail system at least provides a backbone to continue to grow around. MARTA is a great backbone to build from. No other cities in the south have anything like it. Dallas and Charlotte's systems are a joke compared to what MARTA provides this city. We have a backbone, now we can branch off it to increase the reach of transit which will greatly influence future development patterns.

I think the region would be more likely to get behind an ambitious plan like this than a compilation of small projects. Nothing in this $7 billion plan was ambitious or transformational. A commuter rail system with 4 or 5 lines could've provided that for $2 or $3 billion of that sum. Instead people read a list that read like Washington pork-barrel legislation with $90 million for MARTA escalators and said "Eff that."

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by tonygeorgia

high quality of living,

Sitting in traffic does not help this.

[tonygeorgia]

Originally Posted by Lady's Man

I dont know what else could have been done. The outlying counties were getting what they wanted and Fulton and Dekalb were getting a lot of what they wanted. The bill itself was tansparent and great Atlanta companies like Delta, Coca Cola, and UPS were getting behind it. High ranking Repubicans were getting behind it.

And that analyst did say that a SPLOST will not work in GA, but could work in states like Oregon or cities like Denver. The advertising could have been better sure, but at a 70-30 split, I think it was a lot more than just poor advertising.

Plenty of things could have been done differently. Most of the people that voted against the bill didn't vote against it because they hate Atlanta. They voted against it because the projects were not going to fix our traffic problems and they do not trust our governor and state officials with the tax revenue (Ga 400). Two weeks prior to the vote he said he would end the tolls on next year . Those were the biggest issues. People in the suburbs hate traffic just as much as people ITP but they just need a better plan next time. More rail and less road improvements. Most of the co-workers that voted against it said if the plan would help traffic they would be the first to vote for it.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Well said.

The sky is not falling.

Just time to re-group and learn from this.

The world is watching and now they know we don't care. Smaller southern metros and other that are up and coming or directly competing with us will take jobs from us based on this.

We just gave our competition ammo. Perception is everything in this game of drawing corporations.

[tonygeorgia]

This exact same bill would have failed in Metro Dallas, NYC, DC, Houston, etc.

[Onthemove2014]

Why are people saying this would have passed with more rail?


Isn't the whole point of it not being mostly rail based BECAUSE the suburban countries supposedly would not have voted for it since they like driving?