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I fully expect the parking deck to be pretty much the centerpiece of the development because I see the urban core being redeveloped a few more times before we reach the desired level of density + high $$/sq ft required in order to develop like other cities. Realistically, as arjay has pointed out, there is still a wide range of choices in this town and the demand (economically) just isn't there for a more elegant solution. Add to that the many employment centers we have in this town. Vertical development will take some time gaining traction here. I would personally like to see the "condo crash" cleaned up w/ respectable occupancy rate before seeing more developments.
I remember talking to a big condo developer one time who was planning a project next to a MARTA station. I asked why he didn't consider limiting the parking and he said, "Hey, who's going to pay $400,000 for a condo without adequate parking?" That may well change in the future but for now he's got a point.
I agree - that mindset is going to take a while to change, and i don't mean change like Portland did and drive out (or does not attract) job creating industries over a single generation. But rather, residents need to feel it is an organically changing inevitability for a developing city. Some will choose to move out like new yorkers moving out to CT or NJ. Some will sink roots knowing that the better times are ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
I remember talking to a big condo developer one time who was planning a project next to a MARTA station. I asked why he didn't consider limiting the parking and he said, "Hey, who's going to pay $400,000 for a condo without adequate parking?" That may well change in the future but for now he's got a point.
I remember talking to a big condo developer one time who was planning a project next to a MARTA station. I asked why he didn't consider limiting the parking and he said, "Hey, who's going to pay $400,000 for a condo without adequate parking?" That may well change in the future but for now he's got a point.
People do it in cities all over the country. It takes a transit/bike/walking culture though which can be developed in Atlanta in time. One of the reason's people can afford urban living in many dense cities is because they don't have to pay for gas, car payments, car maintenance, or car insurance. It off sets the cost of housing a lot. Unfortunately, it's expensive to take the suburbs with you when you move into dense cities so you have to adapt. In time, when Atlanta upgrades their public transit infrastructure and becomes more dense, people won't see the need for cars as much. They will be able to buy a $400,000 condo without a parking space because they won't have or want a car. That time will come eventually.
People do it in cities all over the country. It takes a transit/bike/walking culture though which can be developed in Atlanta in time. One of the reason's people can afford urban living in many dense cities is because they don't have to pay for gas, car payments, car maintenance, or car insurance. It off sets the cost of housing a lot. Unfortunately, it's expensive to take the suburbs with you when you move into dense cities so you have to adapt. In time, when Atlanta upgrades their public transit infrastructure and becomes more dense, people won't see the need for cars as much. They will be able to buy a $400,000 condo without a parking space because they won't have or want a car. That time will come eventually.
From what I can see, it's happening more and more. Midtown was far more of a ghost town when I moved here in 2008 than it is now. And it's still adding new highrises. Despite the fact that some of these regrettably have detached parking structures, a residential highrise with a detached structure is still far better than a dirt or asphalt lot.
I'd like to see more complexes itemize parking. $50/mo out of the checking account is only a small fraction of the total cost of driving, but it will get people to think about it more. You save so much money by getting rid of a car; a weekly cab ride to make up for the lack of car wouldn't nearly close the gap.
From what I can see, it's happening more and more. Midtown was far more of a ghost town when I moved here in 2008 than it is now. And it's still adding new highrises. Despite the fact that some of these regrettably have detached parking structures, a residential highrise with a detached structure is still far better than a dirt or asphalt lot.
I'd like to see more complexes itemize parking. $50/mo out of the checking account is only a small fraction of the total cost of driving, but it will get people to think about it more. You save so much money by getting rid of a car; a weekly cab ride to make up for the lack of car wouldn't nearly close the gap.
People keep saying this but im sorry, not having a car is just too much of an inconvenience for me and it only benefits people that live in very few areas. Unless you're going to make public transportation more adequate that goes EVERYWHERE it just won't work for me. It's bad enough having to stand at a bus or train stop when they're steady cutting routes and having to be there longer outside in the elements, but at this point the system just isnt nearly adequate. If and when they start taking public transportation seriously here more people will consider it.
And honestly, Atlanta will never be more than 30-40% carless other than those that just can't afford it. Why? Because cars make things so much more convenient. If I wanted to get from where I live to the airport without a car i'd probably have to leave home 2.5 hours early. Would have to take a cab or walk to the nearest cct station, then wait forever on the link that goes into downtown. With a car it's 20 minutes...I just don't see ever giving that up to go to riding a crowded bus and still having to rent a car when I need to go out of town.
And even if I did decide to give up the ride, then I have to basically move somewhere that's likely going to be more expensive than where I live now or to the hood just to have access to it. If you live downtown or midtown or Buckhead, yea great no issues for you with Marta. But for many others, not so much. This city wasn't built around the bus/train and I don't think that'll ever change.
People keep saying this but im sorry, not having a car is just too much of an inconvenience for me and it only benefits people that live in very few areas. Unless you're going to make public transportation more adequate that goes EVERYWHERE it just won't work for me. It's bad enough having to stand at a bus or train stop when they're steady cutting routes and having to be there longer outside in the elements...
I know there are a lot of valid objections to the automobile but there's no denying it makes life much easier. Even in countries where auto ownership is low they are typically considered very desirable.
The projects underscore some big bets developers are making within intown Atlanta. Those bets are based on at least three key beliefs: 1) That the United States is evolving into a “rentership society" in the wake of downturn and credit freeze. 2) That nowhere is that trend more visible than within the housing market and 3) That Gen Y, which wants to live inside the city and near its amenities, is helping to drive these changes.
“Midtown is one of the most prominent cosmopolitan centers in the Southeast, where people, business and culture come together to create a true live-work-play community providing a quality of life very dear to its residents,” Novare's Jim Borders said in a press release. “The Midtown Atlanta apartment market is currently underserved, and this new community, along with SkyHouse Midtown and 77 12th Street, will add much needed new rental inventory for the burgeoning young professional population who prefer to maintain their mobility and therefore not own, but who still want to live in Midtown.”
Last edited by tonygeorgia; 05-08-2012 at 06:55 PM..
People keep saying this but im sorry, not having a car is just too much of an inconvenience for me and it only benefits people that live in very few areas. Unless you're going to make public transportation more adequate that goes EVERYWHERE it just won't work for me. It's bad enough having to stand at a bus or train stop when they're steady cutting routes and having to be there longer outside in the elements, but at this point the system just isnt nearly adequate. If and when they start taking public transportation seriously here more people will consider it.
And honestly, Atlanta will never be more than 30-40% carless other than those that just can't afford it. Why? Because cars make things so much more convenient. If I wanted to get from where I live to the airport without a car i'd probably have to leave home 2.5 hours early. Would have to take a cab or walk to the nearest cct station, then wait forever on the link that goes into downtown. With a car it's 20 minutes...I just don't see ever giving that up to go to riding a crowded bus and still having to rent a car when I need to go out of town.
And even if I did decide to give up the ride, then I have to basically move somewhere that's likely going to be more expensive than where I live now or to the hood just to have access to it. If you live downtown or midtown or Buckhead, yea great no issues for you with Marta. But for many others, not so much. This city wasn't built around the bus/train and I don't think that'll ever change.
Until it's inconvient to own a car, people won't see the need to get rid of it. I know in DC, the city is adding extreme density and many people with cars don't like it because in a city that already has a 54% non-automobile commuter share, it's getting even harder to have a car in DC going forward. Parking is getting more expensive and it's just easier especially in the core not to have one and use zip car etc. if you need to use a car for something. I think the successful car free cities have a combination of an excellent subway system, dense built environment, walkable streets, and expensive parking. Without that combination, having a car is seen as better and ultimately is affordable. Parking in DC underground garages in residential buildings normally starts at $150. If you live in a row house, you can parallel park on the street but only with a neighborhood registered permit. This goes for the DC core only. Lower density areas outside the core don't have permit parking.
When parking is expensive city wide in Atlanta and having a car causes more head ache than not having one, the city will change. It needs to be seen as too expensive to have a car or too congested to have a car.
People keep saying this but im sorry, not having a car is just too much of an inconvenience for me and it only benefits people that live in very few areas. Unless you're going to make public transportation more adequate that goes EVERYWHERE it just won't work for me. It's bad enough having to stand at a bus or train stop when they're steady cutting routes and having to be there longer outside in the elements, but at this point the system just isnt nearly adequate. If and when they start taking public transportation seriously here more people will consider it.
And honestly, Atlanta will never be more than 30-40% carless other than those that just can't afford it. Why? Because cars make things so much more convenient. If I wanted to get from where I live to the airport without a car i'd probably have to leave home 2.5 hours early. Would have to take a cab or walk to the nearest cct station, then wait forever on the link that goes into downtown. With a car it's 20 minutes...I just don't see ever giving that up to go to riding a crowded bus and still having to rent a car when I need to go out of town.
And even if I did decide to give up the ride, then I have to basically move somewhere that's likely going to be more expensive than where I live now or to the hood just to have access to it. If you live downtown or midtown or Buckhead, yea great no issues for you with Marta. But for many others, not so much. This city wasn't built around the bus/train and I don't think that'll ever change.
My experience is that not having a car will save about enough money to make up the differential between living in Midtown and living in some other nice but less expensive intown area like Candler Park. I wouldn't want to live in Candler Park without a car; it would be possible, but not very fun.
Yes, having car is convenient. But it's becoming a lot easier not to have a car than in the past. The Publix on 9th St and Atlantic Station are huge amenities that didn't used to be there. More development in Midtown means more stuff within walking distance and less need to drive.
I'm not saying a huge percentage of people will stop driving. But more and more will stop than used to in the past. 30-40% carless would be an incredible shift in the way our city functions (although I think that's quite bold; let's talk ~10%).
This is not only a trend but something I expect for the unforeseen future. As a homeowner I am also trying to become a renter myself because I no longer see realestate as an investment, but rather, an allocation of capital.
We know today that capital is becoming increasing mobile and it flows to areas of strong economic activity. Yet people commit to realestate and tie up a big chunk of their capital on something that is not mobile (home). It does not make sense when job producing industries can freely move capital around yet the labor force is tied down due to home ownership.
I think having mobility is just as a big of an asset as anything these days. IMO it is more beneficial to rent and stay mobile rather than buying and giving up mobility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeorgia
The projects underscore some big bets developers are making within intown Atlanta. Those bets are based on at least three key beliefs: 1) That the United States is evolving into a “rentership society" in the wake of downturn and credit freeze. 2) That nowhere is that trend more visible than within the housing market and 3) That Gen Y, which wants to live inside the city and near its amenities, is helping to drive these changes.
“Midtown is one of the most prominent cosmopolitan centers in the Southeast, where people, business and culture come together to create a true live-work-play community providing a quality of life very dear to its residents,” Novare's Jim Borders said in a press release. “The Midtown Atlanta apartment market is currently underserved, and this new community, along with SkyHouse Midtown and 77 12th Street, will add much needed new rental inventory for the burgeoning young professional population who prefer to maintain their mobility and therefore not own, but who still want to live in Midtown.”
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