Transportation Referendum - Support! (Atlanta, Nashville: employment, maintenance, tax)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Like the electronic billboard that has the Untie Atlanta Traffic at Spaghetti Junction? If it doesn't pass can we put a billboard up at the same location mocking those sitting in traffic that voted no?
I think the ads need to clearly display the projects in each county and target the ads for each individual county. Eg: Commercial or billboard at 285/400 talking about the complete remake of the interchange. That way while people are sitting in traffic they can see what will be on list, really get the people thinking.
I have had to distribute the list to people at work because they had no idea what was on the list. All they knew was money for MARTA and roads plus an addition 1% sales tax. That is the half-ass truths that the tea party and any anti-tax groups are spreading.

If the Tea Party wants to vote No, then let them eat cake.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

If the Tea Party wants to vote No, then let them eat cake.

I think their theory is, let everybody else eat cake. For the most part Tea Partiers have already got what they need.

[gt6974a]

Wow, I'm not a Tea Party guy but I agree with some of their thoughts. For the most part their focus is on the income tax level at the Federal level that they can't vote for. Whether it's private, public, small business, etc. This is a local tax and that's where they want their tax money to go, State/County/City/etc. And it's also a 'sales' tax or consumption tax which is where their grass roots comes from. A 'Consumption' tax. You don't pay for it, unless you buy it. They're not against taxes. They're against dumb taxes, taxation w/o representation, wasteful spending, and their money going to pay for dead beats.

Tax money is not the govts. Govt. doesn't generate wealth, it confiscates it.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

Govt. doesn't generate wealth

Try generating wealth in a country that lacks a strong stable govt. The business climate in such countries is not exactly conducive to good economic growth.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

Try generating wealth in a country that lacks a strong stable govt. The business climate in such countries is not exactly conducive to good economic growth.

Totally missed/ignored his point.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Totally missed/ignored his point.

No I didn't, I just felt his point was more complex than the way he put it.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

Wow, I'm not a Tea Party guy but I agree with some of their thoughts. For the most part their focus is on the income tax level at the Federal level that they can't vote for. Whether it's private, public, small business, etc. This is a local tax and that's where they want their tax money to go, State/County/City/etc. And it's also a 'sales' tax or consumption tax which is where their grass roots comes from. A 'Consumption' tax. You don't pay for it, unless you buy it. They're not against taxes. They're against dumb taxes, taxation w/o representation, wasteful spending, and their money going to pay for dead beats.

Tax money is not the govts. Govt. doesn't generate wealth, it confiscates it.

Well I want to bypass any overall anti-tax vs pro-tax or anything on the federal level and make a couple of observations.

You got it right. This is a localized tax for localized projects.

This tax was actually nearly 100% Republican (with some tea party influences) created. They handpicked the method of taxation and the distribution of political power/control within the regions. They also created a series of rules for the whole process.... all of which were to their previously proclaimed values.

What I've found interesting is... whenever I go to these meetings (I'm out in Gwinnett, btw...) the vocal (vs. quiet) dissenters of tsplost are self-proclaimed local tea-partiers... one of whom is continually quoted in the paper as a tea party organizer against the tax.

What I found interesting in the arguments I heard them say... They were simply against -any- tax. It didn't matter what or how. They also kept making stuff up and blatantly ignoring the fact as laid out. (I'm not saying all are like this, but at the meetings the vocal crowds who are also getting on the new and in the papers certainly were)
I have actually lost a great deal of respect for them, because its always no no no. It isn't older republican establishment (or the old moderate democrats) that would sit down together back in the 60s-80s and say what can we do to make this work. It is that localized moderate progressive attitude that we were going to going to do something to make our city better and more attractive to businesses (and high-value jobs in return). I miss that.

but anyways that reason I mention it is thus far from all the people I know and see out here in Gwinnett it is all the typical conservtives against it and all of the progressives all for it.

The conservative voters don't really seem to care that the law was made up with their wishes. They just don't want it to happen. The progressives don't like how this was set up, but they are so desperate to end this 15 stalemate of underinvestment in transportation in the region they will support anything.


Also, to make the matter more complicated... I noticed many of the dissenters are older.. baby boomers and older. I realized something... many of them aren't commuting on a daily basis anymore. I'm really curious how much that influences some people.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Wow... this place is just the bastion of maturity.

Make a point fellas... don't make people lose respect for you.

I've made my points about the TSPLOST and the lack of wisdom regarding the way it's been setup and the project list, ad nauseum.

I just get a little sick and tired when the entire position in favor of this thing is summed up by...and I paraphrase... "we who want this to pass know better than all of you stupid hicks who don't know what's good for you, like all of us smart people do."

That's my point. This thing will most likely fail given the polls I've seen (or squeak by); you are most likely in the minority, and calling the prospective majority stupid doesn't make your point any more correct.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Well I want to bypass any overall anti-tax vs pro-tax or anything on the federal level and make a couple of observations.

You got it right. This is a localized tax for localized projects.

This tax was actually nearly 100% Republican (with some tea party influences) created. They handpicked the method of taxation and the distribution of political power/control within the regions. They also created a series of rules for the whole process.... all of which were to their previously proclaimed values.

What I've found interesting is... whenever I go to these meetings (I'm out in Gwinnett, btw...) the vocal (vs. quiet) dissenters of tsplost are self-proclaimed local tea-partiers... one of whom is continually quoted in the paper as a tea party organizer against the tax.

What I found interesting in the arguments I heard them say... They were simply against -any- tax. It didn't matter what or how. They also kept making stuff up and blatantly ignoring the fact as laid out. (I'm not saying all are like this, but at the meetings the vocal crowds who are also getting on the new and in the papers certainly were)
I have actually lost a great deal of respect for them, because its always no no no. It isn't older republican establishment (or the old moderate democrats) that would sit down together back in the 60s-80s and say what can we do to make this work. It is that localized moderate progressive attitude that we were going to going to do something to make our city better and more attractive to businesses (and high-value jobs in return). I miss that.

but anyways that reason I mention it is thus far from all the people I know and see out here in Gwinnett it is all the typical conservtives against it and all of the progressives all for it.

The conservative voters don't really seem to care that the law was made up with their wishes. They just don't want it to happen. The progressives don't like how this was set up, but they are so desperate to end this 15 stalemate of underinvestment in transportation in the region they will support anything.


Also, to make the matter more complicated... I noticed many of the dissenters are older.. baby boomers and older. I realized something... many of them aren't commuting on a daily basis anymore. I'm really curious how much that influences some people.

Best summary of the opposition and support I've seen thus far.

[Onthemove2014]

When this fails watch our unemployment rate skyrocket higher as companies move out and refuse to settle becuase they will see us dropping the proposal as a indicator that we don't care about the traffic issues.