Real talk about sprawl (Atlanta, Druid Hills: high school, safety, bars)

[ATLTJL]

That's fine, and it's nice that you understand that.

All that was trying to be proven here was that you can't expect everyone to want to subject their children to being part of an up and coming school. Most people want them at a place that has already up and come or was never bad to begin with.

That's the answer to the original question, why is there so much sprawl? The sprawl is because of people looking for this.

So you've already said that intown can't provide it. That's ok, just don't complain about people who seek it elsewhere. Finding quality education for your children is a noble thing to do and at the end of the day it's more important than community service, environmentalism, etc.

If you can't provide reasonably priced housing, quality schools, and low crime, then don't complain when people seek it elsewhere or act like you are somehow better than they are because you chose not to do it yourself, or if you can afford the price of housing in a good school district low crime intown area. I think that's all that we're trying to say.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It comes down to personal choice:

(a) You can jump in and work to make things better. A lot of folks do that and meet with great success, and find it quite fulfilling for their families.

or

(b) You can elect to move somewhere else where it seems like the schools are better.


However, you can't simply stamp your feet and demand to have life handed to you on a silver platter.

"Why can't I have exactly what I want, when I want it and at the price I'd like to pay?"

Things rarely work that way.

Your off base again. Pay attention. No one is demanding anything be handed to them. We are just tired of being told that we can have good schools, affordable homes and safe neighborhoods intown yet no one has shown any and if they don't exist just admitting the fact that intown needs to get those things before people stop moving to sprawl development.

Don't comeback telling us it is what is and that is all it is becuase other cities can do it. Shouldn't don't have to take risks with your child's future in order to afford to live intown in Atlanta.

[Atlanta_BD]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Your off base again. Pay attention. No one is demanding anything be handed to them. We are just tired of being told that we can have good schools, affordable homes and safe neighborhoods intown yet no one has shown any and if they don't exist just admitting the fact that intown needs to get those things before people stop moving to sprawl development.

Don't comeback telling us it is what is and that is all it is becuase other cities can do it. Shouldn't don't have to take risks with your child's future in order to afford to live intown in Atlanta.

What's affordable is relative. While a $750k starter home in the city may be affordable for some, it's not affordable for, I dare say, most. I hear what you are saying about taking risks to live in town. If the schools in the burbs are better and the houses are more affordable, then that's where one should go if that's what they are looking for, if homeownership is their ultimate goal. But it's not the best deal for those who want city life.

I can't speak for others have said becuase I haven't read through the entired thread, but I am here to tell you that the areas in-town with the good schools aren't affordable for most people. Because I've lived in these areas and my daughter goes to school there, I was able to pull it off because I am a renter who knows how to find a bargain. But I know most married couples in the Atlanta area with children want to live in a house. For someone who feels they must live a house, the area isn't going to be affordable unless they have a really high income.

However, I would not move to an up and coming neighborhood where parts of the neighborhood and the schools are still sketchy and "hope for the best." I hear that the West End is really starting to come up and that you can get some really nice places more affordably there, but I would never move to that neighborhood and send my kid to school there. So I get what is being said about taking risks with your kids' future and safety for that matter.

I get flamed a lot for my not-so-favorable comments about Atlanta because I see that all the talk about living in Atlanta because it's more affordable to buy a home here than other cities just isn't true based on the low salaries. Yes you can get more house for the money than in other places and it may be cheaper on the surface, but it's still very pricey considering that the cost of housing here is expensive for a place that claims to have a low COL, coupled with the fact that many of the jobs don't pay very well compared to other places.

Urban sprawl will continue to be an issue because many people who keep moving here from other places are doing so because they are told that they can get houses in Atlanta for cheap (it's true if you buy a house in the ghetto), but when they get here they realize houses in Atlanta aren't so cheap after all
and they have to buy in the 'burbs.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Show us the affordable housing for the safe areas with good PUBLIC schools intown. That is what we are asking for.

What's your range for affordable?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

All that was trying to be proven here was that you can't expect everyone to want to subject their children to being part of an up and coming school.

I've never said anything about "expecting everyone to want to subject their children to being part of an up and coming school." To the contrary, I've said over and over that it's a matter of personal choice. If that's not someone's cup of tea, fine.

But saying "I choose not to do _____" is very different from saying you can't do it. Obviously a good many folks do choose up and coming schools and that's why you have the success stories.

If you can't provide reasonably priced housing, quality schools, and low crime, then don't complain when people seek it elsewhere or act like you are somehow better than they are because you chose not to do it yourself, or if you can afford the price of housing in a good school district low crime intown area. I think that's all that we're trying to say.

No offense, but that's utterly ridiculous, ATLTJL. I have NEVER complained about people moving elsewhere or in any way implied that I'm somehow better than they are. As you know I've always been a big supporter of the suburbs and if that's where someone chooses to live (as 90% of people do), that's fine and dandy with me.

What I don't get is the extreme defensiveness and efforts at justification. If someone chooses to live in the suburbs, why not simply say "That's my personal preference and I'm proud of it." There's no need to claim you were forced to do it against your will.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by aries4118

What's your range for affordable?

Oh, don't start that crap.

When someone says "affordable" we mean homes priced for typical medium household income. For at Atlanta that would be a home that's no higher then 250k to 300k tops .

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I've never said anything about "expecting everyone to want to subject their children to being part of an up and coming school." To the contrary, I've said over and over that it's a matter of personal choice. If that's not someone's cup of tea, fine.

But saying "I choose not to do _____" is very different from saying you can't do it. Obviously a good many folks do choose up and coming schools and that's why you have the success stories.

No offense, but that's utterly ridiculous, ATLTJL. I have NEVER complained about people moving elsewhere or in any way implied that I'm somehow better than they are. As you know I've always been a big supporter of the suburbs and if that's where someone chooses to live (as 90% of people do), that's fine and dandy with me.

What I don't get is the extreme defensiveness and efforts at justification. If someone chooses to live in the suburbs, why not simply say "That's my personal preference and I'm proud of it." There's no need to claim you were forced to do it against your will.

He wasnt talking about you specifically man. Why is it do hard for you to follow the discussion?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

Your off base again. Pay attention. No one is demanding anything be handed to them. We are just tired of being told that we can have good schools, affordable homes and safe neighborhoods intown yet no one has shown any and if they don't exist just admitting the fact that intown needs to get those things before people stop moving to sprawl development.

Don't comeback telling us it is what is and that is all it is becuase other cities can do it. Shouldn't don't have to take risks with your child's future in order to afford to live intown in Atlanta.

Er, I haven't said anything about other cities.

The fact is you can find affordable homes intown (see my post here) and have good schools (see my post here).

That situation suits a good many people, and that's why we have a good many intown success stories. (And why prices go up in those neighborhoods).

On the other hand, it doesn't suit everyone. Folks have the freedom to say, "That just doesn't work for me, I'd rather live in a suburb where the housing costs are lower and where it seems to me the schools are already better." What's wrong with making that choice?


By the way, I have to partially take issue with your statement that "intown needs to get those things (good schools, affordable homes and safe neighborhoods) before people stop moving to sprawl development." Here's why -- it's a chicken and the egg problem. Those things can't simply be decreed. They happen because enough people show up and take action to make them happen. We have the option to either (a) get involved and do something about it or (b) stay put and fuss about it.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

He wasnt talking about you specifically man. Why is it do hard for you to follow the discussion?

Okay, my bad. I assumed he was referring to me since his post came right after mine and seemed to be responding to what I said.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Er, I haven't said anything about other cities.

The fact is you can find affordable homes intown (see my post here) and have good schools (see my post here).

That situation suits a good many people, and that's why we have a good many intown success stories. (And why prices go up in those neighborhoods).

On the other hand, it doesn't suit everyone. Folks have the freedom to say, "That just doesn't work for me, I'd rather live in a suburb where the housing costs are lower and where it seems to me the schools are already better." What's wrong with making that choice?


By the way, I have to partially take issue with your statement that "intown needs to get those things (good schools, affordable homes and safe neighborhoods) before people stop moving to sprawl development." Here's why -- it's a chicken and the egg problem. Those things can't simply be decreed. They happen because enough people show up and take action to make them happen. We have the option to either (a) get involved and do something about it or (b) stay put and fuss about it.

Man, you keep rattling off about preferences and that isn't the argument man. Just stop.

Your examples of good schools with affordable homes has been debunked. You only mention Toomer which is just an elementary school.