Real talk about sprawl (Atlanta, Griffin: new house, to buy, construction)

[GeorgiaLakeSearch]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Those types I have no sympathy for. They are the very reason why many parts of the City and the Tri-Cities (East Point/College Park/Hapeville) are in they shape they are in right now: They got scared that people they didn't like could now legally live next door to them and bolted. Even though the first wave of families that came in were middle class, they results shock of white flight nearly brought those communities (and the City with it) down. It's a miracle the Tri-Cities are in as good as shape as they are in (even those same scared folks and new ones who don't know any better think the Tri-Cities is "bombed out".)

I agree.

When I hear people talk about white flight as a good thing I am disgusted. It is one of the worst things whites did to blacks. It is sad that whites move because they do not want to live by blacks. It is so sad what has happened to Stone Mountain.

[GeorgiaLakeSearch]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

Some of your comments are truly laughable. So every new home that's built outside the perimeter is a "cheap home" filled with "crappy built appliances and counters that fall apart in 10 years". Interesting, considering that most homes have fiber cement siding that lasts longer and requires far less maintenance than the wood siding on older homes, have modern, energy-efficient appliances, windows, and HVAC systems, and usually have granite or solid surface countertops that will last virtually forever. Ever think there's a reason that people are often tearing out old wood windows, adding insulation to walls, and tossing out scratched/chipped/burned plastic laminate countertops in older homes??? There was plenty of shoddy construction back then too- I've renovated more old homes than you've driven past to know all about it.

When you compare a renovated ITP or new ITP house in Buckhead to a house in a neighborhood like Sugarloaf(Gwinnett) or St. Marlo(Forsyth). It is pretty clear what house is better. The OTP style changes more then ITP. OTP used to be all about the stucco and Georgian style houses now it is all faux rustic(which look out of place). ITP stands the test of time better then OTP.

There is a reason why the houses in the "prestigious" country clubs OTP can be built so much larger then ITP houses for less.

It all comes back to quality(ITP) vs. quantity(OTP).

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaLakeSearch

When I hear people talk about white flight as a good thing I am disgusted. It is one of the worst things whites did to blacks. It is sad that whites move because they do not want to live by blacks. It is so sad what has happened to Stone Mountain.

I used to live in Stone Mtn back in the early 1980s when I was going to school here in Atlanta. In fact, I lived in an apartment complex at Memorial Drive and Rays Rd, so I can speak to some degree on this topic, especially about Stone Mtn.

I don't know what each individual person's motive was for moving, but I highly doubt every single person is a racist who didn't want "live by blacks." That is too simplistic and also fails to recognize the changes that were brought by people moving to the neighborhood. I would venture a guess that many people moved out to escape the crime, changes in the schools, and reduction in property values from the other two things I mentioned.

Look, the fact of the matter is that when I lived in Stn Mtn, it was a nice middle class area. You could walk around without fear and crime was next to unheard of in that area. Clarkston, Redan, and Stone Mountain High Schools were all fairly good schools. Can you say that about the area and schools now? Even back in 2001 when I visited the area for the first time in a while, I was stunned at how the Memorial Drive area had changed. Let's not blame people who moved out, but rather those who moved in and changed the area, whatever color they might be.

[cqholt]

A simple solution that could help with connectivity in the suburbs would be to require developers to connect to existing subdivisions and create bike paths from one subdivision to another. This way there is not just 1 entrance to subdivisions that create a bottleneck. It would mimic what is found intown with better connectivity, but still keeping the identity of the suburbs with large tracts and homes. Just a way to improve the flow of cars, pedestrians, and bikes.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaLakeSearch

It all comes back to quality(ITP) vs. quantity(OTP).

You are not trying to make the outrageous claim that house built ITP are somehow inherently of a higher "quality" than those built OTP....are you?

If so, that takes the cake for me. Quality of home building has many variables, from builder to price point to the county inspector, and to try and make the case that somehow just by virtue of a home being ITP that it's of higher quality is ridiculous.

I won't even go into the differences between old and new homes and the updates to building codes, etc. I lived in a 120 year old home in Massachusetts that I put $100K into, so I know a little something about it.

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by JPD

I think you need to learn to read more carefully.

And I you; just as I stated in my response. But please, point out where I mistook anything you said....

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

No, he had a point here. If you could care less about having a yard and a "quiet" neighborhood then the "value" is much less to you personally. Dollars and (s)cents don't mean anything if you don't want what is being sold.

If you read my post, I said drop the personal preferences. Dollars and cents, or I say sense because it is common sense, is what is described. True economics. 200K house in burbs with grass compared to 300K house in Poncey within walking distance to "parks and dining"; no ECONOMIC comparison.Of course you can buy an Iphone and think its better than an HTC Android. But thats your personal preference.

That is why many people ditch that lifestyle for the more urban one. They don't value it like you apparently do regardless of the supposed "bang for buck" you get on land.

I grew up in the inner city so this definitely does not apply to me. The thought of "intown" living is old to me; b een there done that. Truth be told most people that covet this didnt grow up in the inner cities, not because they value living in the West End. They only value the urban lifestyle when Gentrification takes hold. What about embracing it with us inner city natives before the Whole Foods moves in? But thats another issue alltogether...

There is a cost but if you only have to drive 4 miles once or twice a week because you walk or take publc transit to work and the store then obviously all thing being equal, your car will be much cheaper to maintain and gas up.

Stop and go traffic, potholes, debris on local streets, ect...all still play a role. We can argue this till that fat lady sings but she just hit the buffet and its all you can eat so....

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

While I personally have always lived in an urban environment, and will always live in the city center, I completely understand your point of view and it is very much true in most instances of people I encounter who are pro-urban to the point it makes them stupid.

Your above point also plays out in a particularly interesting way in Atlanta (and a similar phenomena in Houston, Dallas, Miami, and DC) where many of the new arrivals are opting for the suburbs rather than the central city. Some, who don't pay very close attention, think this has to do something with the quality of the central city or density or walkability or blah, blah, blah. In reality, it has to do with the fact that most of the new arrivals are from ethnic and economic groups who never lived in the suburbs before (and in some cases could not by law in generations passed). To them, living in the suburbs is the pinnacle of life and they know of living "in the city" are cramped, dirty, old, and sometimes unlivable conditions. I mean seriously, what kind of place do you expect a person who grew up in the projects to live if they somehow "made it out" with an education and a middle class life?

I suppose some people just have trouble seeing beyond their narrow worldview.

That is EXACTLY the point I'm driving home!

[JPD]

Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY

And I you; just as I stated in my response. But please, point out where I mistook anything you said....

What would be the point?

[SLIMMACKEY]

There would be none...I concede.