The battle for urban development (Atlanta, Chamblee: apartments, condos, townhomes)

[RoslynHolcomb]

Handicapped spaces are designated for handicapped people. I don't think using astroller means you're handicapped. I explained the conflict. You have to park the stroller between the cars, the way most parking decks are so tightly packed this cannot be done, especially if you need to use the infant seat.

Originally Posted by arjay57

Roslyn, I said this before but I truly don't understand the conflict between strollers and a parking deck (unless it's a poorly designed one).

A well designed deck will have plenty of handicapped spaces right near the store entrances. They'll allow ample room to load and unload, and there will be elevators only a few steps away.

Check out the interior parking deck at Lenox Marketplace, for example. It's easy in and out an all four sides of the shopping center.

I much prefer that arrangement when I'm handling a car seat, stroller or wheelchair versus attempting to traverse some big surface lot.

Plus you avoid the boiling sun and never get rained on!

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I have found the reason for her thought:

See they don't believe in walkability and transit in Alabama. I know because I lived in Florence and Birmingham. Huntsville is the ultimate car-oriented, suburban sprawl city. Just try driving down University Drive anytime of the day.

You can rent ZipCars for that! They are available at both Inman Park/Reynoldstown and Edgewood/Candler Park Stations.

Can't speak for the rest of Alabama, but this development I spoke of, Providence is booming. Only for rich people, of course, but it's insanely popular.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by JPD

Probably because nobody wants to walk home carrying the six foot ladder, 24 pack of bottled water, two gallons of paint, and 12 roll pack of paper towels they just bought.

That's not the typical shopping trip, however.

Of course automobiles are an important part of life in most American cities and it's silly to argue otherwise. But that doesn't mean shopping centers (like the one proposed at Glenwood) need 10 acres of surface parking.

In many places, shopping centers do just fine with no surface parking at all. There are lots of smarter ways to handle parking.

[rzzzz]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Handicapped spaces are designated for handicapped people. I don't think using astroller means you're handicapped. I explained the conflict. You have to park the stroller between the cars, the way most parking decks are so tightly packed this cannot be done, especially if you need to use the infant seat.

The parking decks at IKEA and Atlantic Station have more room in between spaces than the outdoor lots at Edgewood, Trader Joe's or even Lenox...

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by arjay57

That's not the typical shopping trip, however.

Of course automobiles are an important part of life in most American cities and it's silly to argue otherwise. But that doesn't mean shopping centers (like the one proposed at Glenwood) need 10 acres of surface parking.

In many places, shopping centers do just fine with no surface parking at all. There are lots of smarter ways to handle parking.

Another great point that I forgot to mention. Shopping trips for those who don't use a car or use one infrequently are structured much differently than those who use a car 100% of the time. Instead of buying in mass and hauling a bunch of heavy stuff, one would buy only what they can easily carry. Instead of backing up the truck to haul off a heavy piece of furniture, you rent a truck or utilize the delivery service.

With the advent of reliable Internet shopping, one doesn't even need those big box stores anymore. You can just buy it online and have it delivered to your house.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I have a three foot tall step ladder that can accomplish those things (minus trimming hedges since I live in a condo building and don't do that). For jobs that require something, I've never lived in a building where the maintenance guy didn't have a tall ladder. Either they'll do it for you or you can borrow it.

Really, I see only see the need to own a tall ladder if you own a single family home. Virtually all of the surrounding area IS single family homes. Considering the context of your post, no one is buying one of those every week or even every year. It's a one time purchase if you don't by a piece of crap, so if someone who did not have access to a car to carry one back to their house after purchasing it, they most likely could ask for a favor from a friend to get back home.

OK, you're taking this to a laughable extreme. The ladder has jumped the shark. Substitute cat litter for ladder. The point is (OBVIOUSLY) that some purchases (probably at least half of the shopping trips to big box retailers) require a vehicle (and not a bus or train) for transport. That is one of the reasons there will be a significant number of parking spaces in whatever gets built on this site. Hopefully the parking won't be a sea of asphalt. We agree on that, so I'm not sure what your M.O. is with me.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by arjay57

That's not the typical shopping trip, however.

You missed the point, too.

You guys are off your game today.

A lot of people buy in bulk, or buy several large and/or heavy items that they cannot carry while walking home. Laundry detergent, cat litter, dog food, toilet paper, etc. Even if you just buy two of those things, it could be a challenge to walk to Grant Park or EAV with them.

Remember the context. I was responding to Rosalyn's passive-aggressive response a page or two back about there being no need for ANY parking.

[cqholt]

Can't speak for the rest of Alabama, but this development I spoke of, Providence is booming. Only for rich people, of course, but it's insanely popular.

Of course because people do not want to have to get in their car and drive for everything.
A better example of what Glenwood Park and the area is trying to accomplish in Alabama is Mount Laurel, AL (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...06968&t=h&z=18) but these master planned communities are expensive. That's why if 1 desires these and doesn't want to pay huge sums for it, they can purchase homes in older neighborhoods that were established before the popularity in cars.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by JPD

You missed the point, too.

You guys are off your game today.

A lot of people buy in bulk, or buy several large and/or heavy items that they cannot carry while walking home. Laundry detergent, cat litter, dog food, toilet paper, etc. Even if you just buy two of those things, it could be a challenge to walk to Grant Park or EAV with them.

Remember the context. I was responding to Rosalyn's passive-aggressive response a page or two back about there being no need for ANY parking.

People that live in dense urban walkable cities never carry groceries in bags. We use carts. They fold up and we pull them behind us like suitcases. It takes way less energy than loading the car, driving, unloading the car, unpacking etc. etc. We just pull the cart right up into our buildings, onto the elevator, and right up to the refrigerator in our homes. We also can make more quick trips so we don't have to buy in bulk since our stores in the city are close to where we live. Our produce stays fresher this way. This only works when stores are integrated into the city on the first floor of highrises though.


Example of a City Necessity:

http://foldingshoppingcart.biz/media.../media/033.jpg

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

The parking decks at IKEA and Atlantic Station have more room in between spaces than the outdoor lots at Edgewood, Trader Joe's or even Lenox...

Of course IKEA does. You have to get all that flat packed stuff in your car! Can't speak for AS. Unfortunately that's not my experiencewith most parking decks in the metro. Hospitals seem to be the worse, but even the ones at places like Perimeter are pretty horrific. Frankly before I had my second son I would never have thought of this. I didn't use the stroller as much with my first, but now that I'm holding one and pushing one, it's pretty gnarly. I either have to park the stroller behind the car, (not safe) or carry him because there's simply not enough room without bumping into the adjacent car. The combination of not enough spaces along with there not being enough of them make parking decks a major turnoff for this shopper.

Look, I have no dog in this fight. I was simply giving the perspective of a shopper. I don't think you guys do a lot of shopping, especially with kids. Do me a favor, go to a typical crowded Atlanta parking deck and try to get a kid in a stroller between cars.