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I see this is an old ressurrected thread, but need to add my two cents.
I come from a line of ministers and have spent a part of my adult life on pastoral staff of a fair sized church in Cobb County. I want to take issue with a couple of misfounded thoughts I have read in this thread.
Ministers pay taxes on their income. An ordained minister can write off expenses pertaining to his home. I remember we were allowed to deduct the amount we spent on paper towels because it was used on the house but not tissues or toilet paper as it was of personal use, if I may paint such a graphic pciture.
All other non clerical employees have to pay taxes and churches have to pay their SS share just like any other business.
An ordained minister can opt out of paying Social Security on money earned from funds by filing a certain form with the IRS on religious grounds. Of course, if said minister does so, he isn't paying in and won't get anything out later.
Churches still pay other taxes, sales tax on office supplies and church furnishings, they pay their matching part of all employees on staff. To say that churches are completely tax exempt is erroneous.
I see the big names of the mega churches get blasted and then people make sweeping generalizations on all churches and ministers when the VAST majority of men and women in ministry positions are paid on a rather modest scale. Most ordained ministers have hard earned post graduate degrees and most times make far less than someone with a similar level of education in other vocations.
But I won't stoop to slam Creflo or others in his position. Most of these big name guys have written books that have been on best seller lists and don't take a salary from their churches. Everytime I go into a superstore, I see Joel Osteen's smiling face from a book display. Royalties on his booksales alone would make him super wealthy. Do we slam Stephen King or Micheal Crichton for living a well-heeled life? Or is a minister that writes a book suppossed to refuse any money from royalties? Or are they to be held to some other standard? If so, what?
While I don't think Creflo Dollar has sold books to the tune of a Joel Osteen or a Rick Warren, I know he has sold enough books and CDs that to make for a comfy lifestyle outside of any monies from the church, so I have no problem believing that he doesn't take a salary from his church.
You might not like his lavish lifestyle (I believe it does distract from his message as this thread proves) but there is no reason to call him a charlatan or a crook or bound for hell.
OK, can step of my soap box now.
YOU are on point too these things people dont think about my church Alone speands 13,000 on the church each month.
This is hilarious. All I seem to see is alot of misinformation and attacks directed toward the wrong person. I attend World Changers and I dont see half of what most of yall are posting on here. So as a member who attends on a regular basis, allow me to clear up some of these misconceptions about Creflo and his ministry.
1.) Jesus was indeed rich. You see Jesus was God incarnate. And if I do recall, Jesus did indeed have a treasurer, whom was Judas. (In fact, Judas was chosen just due to his greed of money. It illustrated an important lesson about loving money too much). Also, if indeed Jesus is God-made-flesh, itd make sense to say that God owns the entire wealth, real estate, and resources of the created/uncreated universe. More that a qualification of wealth.
2.) Creflo actually teaches true biblical knowledge. I make it a point to read my bible. And I also have studied mostly all of the cults and world religions you can think of. What Creflo has been preaching on, (at least since spring 2009) is totally biblical. He gives verses in context to verify it. Plus, Ive seen evident the movement of the Holy Spirit with accompanying miracles in my own sight.
3.) Even though Creflo walks with God, doesnt mean EVERYONE at World Changers does. A downside to a mega-church, even the most spirit-filled ones, is that there are plenty of benchwarmers and lukewarm christians that slip through the cracks. Including the lady who may have been at the outreach center. ^^^to buddy above, Im sorry if that lady treated you that way. Id have gone to her superior, and fasted and prayed heavily on it. God does indeed see those that abuse his flock, triple so if they claim the label of Christ.
4.) Prosperity teachings are very much biblical. The thing is, there is a LACK of UNDERSTANDING as to what prosperity truly is. You see, its vain to be rich in your pockets if youre poor in spirit. Plus, money only further corrupts a fool. (btw, a fool says in his heart there is no God......). As far as what Ive read in the bible, Jesus came to break the back of poverty forever. The main reason why people stay locked into poverty is because one, they generally suck with money. Two, they tithe-which is great and commanded- but without a purpose or with a bad attitude. Creflo preached on this last sunday. Honoring God. Think about it like this.....if YOU were God Almight, how would u feel if people treated you the way most folks treat God everyday? Sometimes we forget that God is a personality....the prime personality in the universe. He is God, AND a person too! The reason you as a human have emotions and feelings is because you are modeled after God, whom is love. So we have the capacity to feel love and give it in return. I dont know about most of you, But I would be VERY hurt the way most of us treat God like he's a genie or a pet. The nerve! Instead of always wondering why God aint doing nothing for you, ask what have you done for God? What have you done for Love? What have you WILLINGLY and in GOOD CHEER done for others? How about your enemies? How about those of other races or strangers who might be new or your job or in your classes?
And the reason why black america is in the shape its in, along with rest of america, are....well ALOT of reasons,
1.) We idolize Obama, the NBA, Lil Wayne, and Wendy Williams more than our God.....that would qualify as Idolatry....seriously. A major offense.
2.) Were quick to back bite and pull others down, or we judge ourselves based on the dollar"z" we got in the bank. We act like our money is OURS alone. Allow me to clear this up. I dont care what so-called religion u belong to (unless its biblical worship, its all a lie. All religion stems from the occult....Islam, Buddism, Catholicism, etc. it all comes from the worship of Nimrod and Semiramis...the original sun and mood goddess, along with Tammuz, the star. Its why occultist, satanists, wiccans, GOD himself, and other new agers frown upon powerless "religion"),
and listen close....
NOT A DIME OF YOUR MONEY BELONGS TO YOU!!!! God gave you life and limb to go out and win that bread. All He asks for is 10%...no more, no less. Not that God needs your money, but as you read with Abraham, he HONORED God's gift of victory so much he gave 10% of all the spoils of war to God....as an act of love. And that 10% goes toward the efforts of ministry to feed others and such other charity. If you are a part of a church that does otherwise, you have a duty to report it and make a big fuss over it. To not honor God is a violation of commandment, and is just plain trifling. Its why America is going broke and will continue to go bust as long as we dishonor God with our latest so called "liberal" agenda. That not liberal. Its a mind-game to get this Nation to .......u know what, Imma save my fingers on that one. That for another post, another forum, another day.
Gotta say..this is an excellent post. I'm like this..I know within my heart why I give my 10%, what the church does with it is bw them and God. God knows I gave frome the heart and just bc people assume all churches are out to get your money (and some may be), that will not stop me from going or giving. People would always say "why did you give that homeless person money, they are just going to drink it up or blow it." I say "I can't be worried about what they do with it, I know I gave it to them for food and I gave it from the bottom of my heart." As long as you know you are giving for the RIGHT reasons, what does it matter how corrupt or rich the preacher appears to be? I can't be worried about that...all I'm worried about is my spiritual connection with God...point blank.
Creflo A. Dollar wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. Take that ten percent a donate it to a shelter or food bank instead of filling up his Bentley. The saying goes...."A fool and his money......
Creflo A. Dollar wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. Take that ten percent a donate it to a shelter or food bank instead of filling up his Bentley. The saying goes...."A fool and his money......
So what kinda car do preachers supposed to drive what kinda house are they supposed to be in... How is he supposed to keep his ministry going.. What about church repairs.. Quit being so judgemental man.. What if people walked around and judged u everyday everytime u walked in a store u get profiled.. I'm pretty sure u wouldn't like it at all... The way this man is being discussed on this site is crazy...
The difference is...I'm not asking people for money or basing their blessings on how much they give. I would never go to a Mega church for anything. Money and spirituality doesn't mix! I understand that the church needs money to operate. But what we have is a gross misunderstanding of what religion should be and its effect on people. Creflo can buy the biggest house or the best car, but it should not come at the expense of his hardworking congregation. The whole "prosperity" preaching is a gigantic farce. It reminds me of Vegas. The house will always win. Masses upon masses give to these so called prophets of the pulpit for what. And make no mistake about it, it's a big business. Most of the pastors have lost touch with reality and have a disconnet from the original reason why they got into preaching. To help people find spirituality and the lord. My grandmother is an avid church goer but she explained to me as a kid that you don't have to go to church to be saved. And you should never follow anyone or anything that you feel will lead you astray. There is a special place in hell for Creflo and his ilk. I have heard stories and read articles where Mega churches like his have asked potential members for their credit report, pay stubs and W2's. Supposed i can't afford to give ten percent, does that make me less spiritual? When money comes into the whole equation, the message becomes watered down. Church should not be a big business.
I've been in many heated discusions about the tithe and whether or not Christians are to tithe or not.
I have not read one scripture that commands or infers that Christians are to tithe money! Christians are to give of their first fruits and give joyously but Gods word never tells us to give a tenth of what we earn.
What happens is religous leader pull scripture out of context most what was written to the jews instead of christians and bind it on their churches. (Notice I said their churches not Christ).
This is hilarious. All I seem to see is alot of misinformation and attacks directed toward the wrong person. I attend World Changers and I dont see half of what most of yall are posting on here. So as a member who attends on a regular basis, allow me to clear up some of these misconceptions about Creflo and his ministry.
1.) Jesus was indeed rich. You see Jesus was God incarnate. And if I do recall, Jesus did indeed have a treasurer, whom was Judas. (In fact, Judas was chosen just due to his greed of money. It illustrated an important lesson about loving money too much). Also, if indeed Jesus is God-made-flesh, itd make sense to say that God owns the entire wealth, real estate, and resources of the created/uncreated universe. More that a qualification of wealth.
2.) Creflo actually teaches true biblical knowledge. I make it a point to read my bible. And I also have studied mostly all of the cults and world religions you can think of. What Creflo has been preaching on, (at least since spring 2009) is totally biblical. He gives verses in context to verify it. Plus, Ive seen evident the movement of the Holy Spirit with accompanying miracles in my own sight.
3.) Even though Creflo walks with God, doesnt mean EVERYONE at World Changers does. A downside to a mega-church, even the most spirit-filled ones, is that there are plenty of benchwarmers and lukewarm christians that slip through the cracks. Including the lady who may have been at the outreach center. ^^^to buddy above, Im sorry if that lady treated you that way. Id have gone to her superior, and fasted and prayed heavily on it. God does indeed see those that abuse his flock, triple so if they claim the label of Christ.
4.) Prosperity teachings are very much biblical. The thing is, there is a LACK of UNDERSTANDING as to what prosperity truly is. You see, its vain to be rich in your pockets if youre poor in spirit. Plus, money only further corrupts a fool. (btw, a fool says in his heart there is no God......). As far as what Ive read in the bible, Jesus came to break the back of poverty forever. The main reason why people stay locked into poverty is because one, they generally suck with money. Two, they tithe-which is great and commanded- but without a purpose or with a bad attitude. Creflo preached on this last sunday. Honoring God. Think about it like this.....if YOU were God Almight, how would u feel if people treated you the way most folks treat God everyday? Sometimes we forget that God is a personality....the prime personality in the universe. He is God, AND a person too! The reason you as a human have emotions and feelings is because you are modeled after God, whom is love. So we have the capacity to feel love and give it in return. I dont know about most of you, But I would be VERY hurt the way most of us treat God like he's a genie or a pet. The nerve! Instead of always wondering why God aint doing nothing for you, ask what have you done for God? What have you done for Love? What have you WILLINGLY and in GOOD CHEER done for others? How about your enemies? How about those of other races or strangers who might be new or your job or in your classes?
And the reason why black america is in the shape its in, along with rest of america, are....well ALOT of reasons,
1.) We idolize Obama, the NBA, Lil Wayne, and Wendy Williams more than our God.....that would qualify as Idolatry....seriously. A major offense.
2.) Were quick to back bite and pull others down, or we judge ourselves based on the dollar"z" we got in the bank. We act like our money is OURS alone. Allow me to clear this up. I dont care what so-called religion u belong to (unless its biblical worship, its all a lie. All religion stems from the occult....Islam, Buddism, Catholicism, etc. it all comes from the worship of Nimrod and Semiramis...the original sun and mood goddess, along with Tammuz, the star. Its why occultist, satanists, wiccans, GOD himself, and other new agers frown upon powerless "religion"),
and listen close....
NOT A DIME OF YOUR MONEY BELONGS TO YOU!!!! God gave you life and limb to go out and win that bread. All He asks for is 10%...no more, no less. Not that God needs your money, but as you read with Abraham, he HONORED God's gift of victory so much he gave 10% of all the spoils of war to God....as an act of love. And that 10% goes toward the efforts of ministry to feed others and such other charity. If you are a part of a church that does otherwise, you have a duty to report it and make a big fuss over it. To not honor God is a violation of commandment, and is just plain trifling. Its why America is going broke and will continue to go bust as long as we dishonor God with our latest so called "liberal" agenda. That not liberal. Its a mind-game to get this Nation to .......u know what, Imma save my fingers on that one. That for another post, another forum, another day.
I noticed you responded by not to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by envied110
This is an old discussion; however, my comment is still relevant-as is the problem that this thread addresses. People: DO NOT GIVE A DIME TO ANY 'CHURCH' OR MAN/WOMAN OF GOD WHO DOES NOT HAVE A REAL OUTREACH PROGRAM. Most of these mega churches have IN-REACH programs only (you drop it in/they take it). A few years back, I came to Atlanta and, after having been giving to Creflos ministry for years at that point, I decided to turn to them when my wallet was stolen, leaving me with no resources, no family and no friends...no other options. They turned me away.
I still remember the woman's words at the church's outreach office...'We don't do that.' I went to them asking for food to eat and any assistance that they could offer. 'we don't do that.' Funny thing is...JESUS WOULD.
And it isnt the first time i've heard it. My aunt attended that church for 8 years and gave 10% EVERY check she got. Yet when she lost her job and needed help and went to them they acted like they didnt even know who she was. I've been in smaller churches all my life and know firsthand had she been a member where I went, like I told her she should've done to begin with.. she wouldnt have had this problem. Then you have pastors like Eddie Long all on tv wit 404 motorsports showcasing their cars and acting anything BUT holy. SMH.. folks will never get it.
How do you know this? I am not defending the nega church or am I saying something is wrong with them. Are you basing your comment off of statistics if so I would be interested in seeing the source for your statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet
I will never EVER go to one of those mega churches. Half the members can barely pay their own mortgage.
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