Portland mayor: 'It'll take generations' to fix metro Atlanta's sprawl (Alpharetta: apartments, house)

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I mean having the majority of the population within your metropolitan area confined to areas where transit is either difficult to access or completely non-existent; where residential subdivisions will abut shopping centers but still not be within walkable proximity due to archaic zoning policies; where the majority still view widening a freeway as being a "solution" instead of a "band-aid"; where one must take life into their own hands if they want to bike anywhere significantly as a viable means of commuting; where neighborhoods already serviced by MARTA will still be home to immense congestion (i.e. North Buckhead) due to far too many people still living too far out and commuting in; where surface parking is still built in much greater quantity than multi-level and/or subterranean parking; where the cul-de-sac isn't seen as being outdated; etc.

I always see people criticize Atlanta's congestion, yet everyday I'm glad I don't live in the cities that are considered the best when it comes to transit and planning. I don't sit in the horrific traffic that plagues America's "top" cities. Nor do I have to pack in to train cars like sardines. I do what I want, when I want to with minimal interference.

If I choose to live in the right place in metro Atlanta (and there are PLENTY of them), it is very easy to avoid giving too much of your life to traffic. Most of the cities that people think Atlanta should be like would be impossible to avoid to congestion or so incredibly expensive only the top 1% can afford it.

So, people tell me I live in a mess, but my QOL is much better than any of the places we should be emulating.

[avbanks]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

The terrain around cities like Pittsburgh and Portland have a HUGE impact on where development can go. Cities like Atlanta and Dallas that are situated on relatively flat (much flatter in Dallas, lol) with no mountain ranges, large bodies of water, major rivers, deserts, swamps, etc, etc, nearby are able to grow in all directions of the compass point. This is one of the reasons these two cities get mentioned in the sprawl debates.

I find it laughable that building freeways in and of itself encourages growth. If that were the case, all a city would have to do to become the next Atlanta is start adding lanes, and VOILA! next major growth city in America! How simple!

There are many factors that cause a region to boom. Booming cities do have headaches that growth in and of itself will bring. I think our fair city has done a rather nice job of managing its growth. The Portland mayor can stay up in his minor league sized city and cast aspersions all day long. For me, I'll stick with Atlanta.

Often under-looked point

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Mischief8

Not sure on how long it's been since you've visited Atlanta, but there is a great deal of smart growth and urban repopulation going on here. It seems like you're going on hearsay and "telephone game-style word of mouth".

Just because we don't have big splashy headline-grabbing progress doesn't mean we're not making progress. The beautiful thing about cities is that they're living, changing entities.

The 2012 estimated population of Metro Atlanta is 5,457,831. The 2012 estimated population of the CITY of Atlanta is 443,775. What does this mean? Just 8% of the people in Metro Atlanta actually LIVE in Atlanta, while the other 92% live in the suburbs/exurbs. I'm not seeing how this can be viewed as anything other than irresponsible and unsustainable from an urban planning standpoint.

I'm aware of what's going on in Atlanta in terms of smart growth, but your city still only contains one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) shares of residents as a percentage of overall metro population, indicating that even as the city and metro both continue to grow, the metro's growth (suburban) is outpacing the growth of the city (urban). Atlanta city proper can infill to its heart's content, but as long as the majority of people moving to the area opt for the 'burbs (many of which aren't linked well via MARTA), and as long as your share of the metro population living in the city remains so low, then don't expect your traffic woes to do anything but continue to worsen in the coming years.

Originally Posted by gerrythesnake

We do not care about Portland. GO to the Portland forum if you want to talk with them

Isolationism should do wonders to help your local economy in the coming years. Successful cities are those willing to exchange ideas with our cities. Atlanta does things that Portland could benefit from, I'm sure, just as Portland could share things with Atlanta. Telling me to "go away" isn't going to work, by the way. This sub-forum should encourage thought-provoking debate.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The 2012 estimated population of Metro Atlanta is 5,457,831. The 2012 estimated population of the CITY of Atlanta is 443,775. What does this mean? Just 8% of the people in Metro Atlanta actually LIVE in Atlanta, while the other 92% live in the suburbs/exurbs.

You are either ignorant to the design of our fine city or just trolling.

[ATLJR]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

You are either ignorant to the design of our fine city or just trolling.

How is he ignorant? That's a verified statistics.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by ATLJR

How is he ignorant? That's a verified statistics.

92% of Metro Atlanta does not live in the suburbs. There are plenty of places that considered "intown" that are not in the city of Atlanta.

[ATLJR]

@ SteelCityRising

I want to say I appreciate your points, all of them, and you're 100% spot on. Much like the city of Atlanta, the majority of this forum don't live in Atlanta, they live in a suburb / exurb, and they enjoy urban sprawl and "amenities" it provides. Those are their lifestyle choices so obviously they're going to take any criticism of their lifestyle poorly.

[Adric]

What an appropriate thread for me to comment on. After 8 years of living in Atlanta, I am moving to Portland this weekend.

I visited Portland for a week last month and it is indeed a completely different city than Atlanta. While it is dense and walkable in many areas, it's still no "mini NYC" or anything. There are still strip malls in suburban Portland.

He has a point when he says it would take generations to turn Atlanta into a larger Portland but the question is, why should Atlanta have to? Atlanta is well on it's way to urban renewal in the areas that matter in town. Atlanta's residents have an increasing number of options for urban, dense, walkable areas to live in if they so desire. I say let the suburbs be what and where they are and continue to focus on in town areas for the dense stuff (which still needs more work but not so much more that it will take "generations to complete")

There are major benefits of having a metro area develop like Portland's though. The air smelled so much cleaner out there, even downtown Portland smelled crisp and clean. The smaller metro size helps but it smelled cleaner than even my still smaller hometown of Nashville. Traffic was also a snap too as most people I saw around the immediate area of downtown were walking/biking rather than driving.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Mischief8]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The 2012 estimated population of Metro Atlanta is 5,457,831. The 2012 estimated population of the CITY of Atlanta is 443,775. What does this mean? Just 8% of the people in Metro Atlanta actually LIVE in Atlanta, while the other 92% live in the suburbs/exurbs. I'm not seeing how this can be viewed as anything other than irresponsible and unsustainable from an urban planning standpoint.

I'm aware of what's going on in Atlanta in terms of smart growth, but your city still only contains one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) shares of residents as a percentage of overall metro population, indicating that even as the city and metro both continue to grow, the metro's growth (suburban) is outpacing the growth of the city (urban). Atlanta city proper can infill to its heart's content, but as long as the majority of people moving to the area opt for the 'burbs (many of which aren't linked well via MARTA), and as long as your share of the metro population living in the city remains so low, then don't expect your traffic woes to do anything but continue to worsen in the coming years.



Isolationism should do wonders to help your local economy in the coming years. Successful cities are those willing to exchange ideas with our cities. Atlanta does things that Portland could benefit from, I'm sure, just as Portland could share things with Atlanta. Telling me to "go away" isn't going to work, by the way. This sub-forum should encourage thought-provoking debate.

Right. . .so it's been a while since you've visited. You should come and stay a spell. Statistics don't make a city.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I always see people criticize Atlanta's congestion, yet everyday I'm glad I don't live in the cities that are considered the best when it comes to transit and planning. I don't sit in the horrific traffic that plagues America's "top" cities. Nor do I have to pack in to train cars like sardines. I do what I want, when I want to with minimal interference.

If I choose to live in the right place in metro Atlanta (and there are PLENTY of them), it is very easy to avoid giving too much of your life to traffic. Most of the cities that people think Atlanta should be like would be impossible to avoid to congestion or so incredibly expensive only the top 1% can afford it.

So, people tell me I live in a mess, but my QOL is much better than any of the places we should be emulating.

Your metro area now houses around 5.5 million people and continues to grow rapidly. At some point there's going to be so may newcomers who share your mindset of "I want to drive in my own car however I want whenever I want" that even the shortcuts, backroads, and secret arterials that you currently enjoy with relatively little traffic woes will become congested.

By the way, Pittsburgh and Honolulu continually jockey back-and-forth to be America's "top" city in terms of overall livability criteria. Honolulu indeed has congestion issues. Pittsburgh's few traffic bottlenecks are generally on our east/west highways (I-376 especially), and the overwhelming majority of people sitting in that traffic are those who work Downtown and live in the east or west suburbs/exurbs by choice. Portland avoids congestion because so many people are able to walk, bike, or take transit to their needs due to more efficient planning. At some point if Atlanta keeps supporting the mindset of "bigger is better" and "it's a free country, butt out" it will become so congested it will fail WITHOUT adopting better transit and land usage policies set forth by OTHER cities.