New MMPT Renderings (Atlanta, Acworth, Dallas: apartments, how much, schools)

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

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The reason I mention this is gives us the opportunity to start up commuter service without MMTP in place, but we aren't wasting money since it is needed in the long run anyways.

The best example, which has many advantages given as-built conditions, are a northern junction for the two commuter lines from Gwinnett/NE/Athens. There is one small area where the Marta, the CSX tracks, and NS tracks intersect.

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Are you imagining this station in the Armour/Lindbergh area?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Without extensive amounts of private investment, both the MMPT and the network of regional commuter rail lines it serves likely will never get constructed and become operational in this era of rapidly-shrinking public funding for transportation.

Exactly. It's been evident for some years that PPPs are really the only way to go.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Are you imagining this station in the Armour/Lindbergh area?

It would have to be. It has to go at the intersection of the tracks just west of Marta's Armour maintenance and storage yard to take advantage of linking platforms with the different routes.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=33.81...t=h&gl=us&z=18

[cqholt]

Now that I'm thinking about this they will build a commuter rail in the suburbs if they do build this. We all know how bad traffic is going to be especially in the northern suburbs in the next 5-10 years and they have to do something to fix this problem

North Fulton cannot use Commuter Rail since there is no existing rail in the corridor, therefore Red Line extension is the best.
As for running off-peak trains and reverse commute trains, that can come after the commuter rail system is up and going. Let's focus on building a couple corridors first.
The stations don't need to be anything huge at first. A platform, with grade-separated walkway for riders from the tracks, and a parking lot.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cqholt

North Fulton cannot use Commuter Rail since there is no existing rail in the corridor, therefore Red Line extension is the best.
As for running off-peak trains and reverse commute trains, that can come after the commuter rail system is up and going. Let's focus on building a couple corridors first.
The stations don't need to be anything huge at first. A platform, with grade-separated walkway for riders from the tracks, and a parking lot.

You don't have to start out running off-peak service once every 15 minutes or anything crazy. Just once every 1-2 hours, enough so people who have to go home unexpectedly, or only work a half-day, or have to stay late after work will use it at the other times.

The suburban stations don't all need grade-separated walkways. They're certainly nicer and safer, but many could just be direct-access from a nearby grade crossing, with others using dedicated pedestrian grade crossings. Places where the tracks are on an embankment, you can tunnel underneath.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by cqholt

North Fulton cannot use Commuter Rail since there is no existing rail in the corridor, therefore Red Line extension is the best.
As for running off-peak trains and reverse commute trains, that can come after the commuter rail system is up and going. Let's focus on building a couple corridors first.
The stations don't need to be anything huge at first. A platform, with grade-separated walkway for riders from the tracks, and a parking lot.

i think it would be *fantastic* if they used the existing rail stations in the suburbs that originally had rail stations. norcross, gainesville, griffin, etc.

they could be refurbished as commuter rail stations, which is originally what they were, in a sense, and they could revitalize the downtown areas of the cities they are in.

i'm especially excited about this prospect in gainesville. that could be so cool.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by MattCW

You don't have to start out running off-peak service once every 15 minutes or anything crazy. Just once every 1-2 hours, enough so people who have to go home unexpectedly, or only work a half-day, or have to stay late after work will use it at the other times.

The suburban stations don't all need grade-separated walkways. They're certainly nicer and safer, but many could just be direct-access from a nearby grade crossing, with others using dedicated pedestrian grade crossings. Places where the tracks are on an embankment, you can tunnel underneath.

I've been over this before and before. It is a pipe dream without rebuilding all new tracks, because of the heavy amount of freight we have.

The rail plans drawn up since the 90s do not incorporate that type of service for those very reasons.

The cost of building that type of service... we really should look at the regional LRT concept, because the true cost savings are of commuter rail is using the existing tracks.

As-is conditions, the freight providers have sternly said even a few one-way commuter trains going northwest isn't possible at all. It is bottlenecked that much.

[MattCW]

HUH??? It would cost far far far less to add a few tracks to the existing right of way rather than to build entirely new right of way for some kind of regional light rail scheme. The bottom line is that commuter lines without service other than peak time/direction only do not do well, and do not get targeted for expansion.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by MattCW

HUH??? It would cost far far far less to add a few tracks to the existing right of way rather than to build entirely new right of way for some kind of regional light rail scheme. The bottom line is that commuter lines without service other than peak time/direction only do not do well, and do not get targeted for expansion.

They can do well ... but they are just that -commuter service-

and there is a cost difference between building FRA standard tracks and LRT rail, which are smaller and don't have the same legal standards. They are more flexible, can take tighter turns, go up and down steeper grades, and road crossings are more feasible and affordable. There is also nothing preventing them from using existing rail right of way as well.

We are a major inland freight hub for the region. We have dozens of slow moving long freight trains coming in and out of each of these single lines every day. That doesn't include the local freight delivery trains.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

They can do well ... but they are just that -commuter service-

And commuters like flexibility. Not every commuter is on the same exact schedule.

and there is a cost difference between building FRA standard tracks and LRT rail, which are smaller and don't have the same legal standards. They are more flexible, can take tighter turns, go up and down steeper grades, and road crossings are more feasible and affordable.

And yet, the 8 mile Clifton Corridor costs $1.2 Billion while a 30 mile commuter rail line can be built for less than $500 Million, and carry far more people. Both are needed, but they have their separate uses.

There is also nothing preventing them from using existing rail right of way as well.

Yes there is. It's called the legal standards of separation. Short of forcing the freight traffic to only operate at night (which won't work for Atlanta) you can't operate on the same tracks, and the freight RoWs don't really have room for another two completely separate tracks plus the space for stations every few miles.

We are a major inland freight hub for the region. We have dozens of slow moving long freight trains coming in and out of each of these single lines every day. That doesn't include the local freight delivery trains.

So do a lot of other regions.