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What ever makes you feel better about hundreds of millions of your property tax dollars (assuming you live in Cobb) are going to help buy my Braves ticket and line Liberty Media's (Braves colorado based owners) pockets.
Yeah, we're fine. So you can stop fretting now.
And if you look at the facts of how the funding is taking place, property taxes for Cobb residents outside of the Cumberland CID are not planned to be impacted. You might want to review the facts and the actual details, before your imagination runs away from you too far.
BTW...have I seen you on the Falcons stadium thread discussing why the COA is bad and how Atlanta taxpayers will be fleeced by the same kind of hotel/motel and rental car tax increases?
Now...if the plan is changed and the commitments made are not kept, that will be a political issue.
Here are the details if you care:
The memorandum of understanding shows that the Braves will pay $280 million up front, with an additional $92 million over the life of the operating agreement. Cobb County will pledge $14 million up front in transportation improvements and $10 million from the Cumberland Community Improvement District, a self-taxing commercial district overseen by local business leaders.
The county will finance the remaining $276 million by issuing revenue bonds. As for repaying those bonds, here are the bullet points. Remember, each figure is the annual cost over 30 years.
$400,000 from a new rental car tax.
$940,000 from the existing hotel/motel tax.
$2,740,000 from a new hotel/motel fee in the Cumberland CID.
$5,150,000 from a property tax increase in the CID.
$8,670,000 in relocation of existing Cobb County property taxes.
Right. I'd rather hypothetically give my county a few additional bucks in taxes and attend games in Cobb, rather than sit in traffic trying to get to/from Turner Field. It's one of the reasons I haven't attended more games. Leaving the game in the 7th or 8th inning defeats the purpose of going, and getting out of the choke points at Turner Field is ridiculous.
Right. I'd rather hypothetically give my county a few additional bucks in taxes and attend games in Cobb, rather than sit in traffic trying to get to/from Turner Field. It's one of the reasons I haven't attended more games. Leaving the game in the 7th or 8th inning defeats the purpose of going, and getting out of the choke points at Turner Field is ridiculous.
Understandable as a Cobb resident. However most fans from outside the county (especially in North Fulton, Gwinnett, and the east/south metro) will end up in the same position you're in now with the Ted, minus any hope for transit in the forseeable future. Plus, without additional construction of new ramps to/from the freeways in the area, the Cobb Parkway (I-285) and Windy Hill (I-75/285) exits are going to be swamped even more then they are now.
Understandable as a Cobb resident. However most fans from outside the county (especially in North Fulton, Gwinnett, and the east/south metro) will end up in the same position you're in now with the Ted, minus any hope for transit in the forseeable future. Plus, without additional construction of new ramps to/from the freeways in the area, the Cobb Parkway (I-285) and Windy Hill (I-75/285) exits are going to be swamped even more then they are now.
Will they really or is that just hype and hyperbole?
I posted in one of the threads a few weeks ago a breakdown of the number of days that would include a start that would align to an evening rush hour. It was a very small number. I don't remember the exact number, but I it was around 30 days a year. The rest were day games, weekend games, holiday games, etc.
Look, most people will come to the game in a staggered manner. Everyone isn't getting there at the same time. Many people will come from the north or from different directions. People will come from both directions on both I-75 and I-285. Contrast that will Turner Field where everyone funnels in on I-75/85 and exits at the same narrow choke point.
As for leaving the venue after the game....the hope is obviously that some people will stay and partake of some of the surrounding establishments. Even if people leave, the traffic isn't a factor at 10 or 11pm. As long as egress from the venue is managed and isn't bottlenecked as it always is at Turner Field, things should be fine.
I used to be able to get home from Fenway Park quicker than I do from Turner Field, despite Fenway being in the center of a crowded city.
And if you look at the facts of how the funding is taking place, property taxes for Cobb residents outside of the Cumberland CID are not planned to be impacted. You might want to review the facts and the actual details, before your imagination runs away from you too far.
BTW...have I seen you on the Falcons stadium thread discussing why the COA is bad and how Atlanta taxpayers will be fleeced by the same kind of hotel/motel and rental car tax increases?
Yes. I am in those threads. Not crazy about money going to Falcons either. But it is the reality we live in and is a much better deal. It is no additional tax, just continuing hotel tax already going to the Dome / GWCC. No property taxes. No tax increases. Only 17% of the stadium being paid for by the city, plus it can be used for a lot more uses including world class events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Here are the details if you care:
...
$400,000 from a new rental car tax.
$940,000 from the existing hotel/motel tax.
$2,740,000 from a new hotel/motel fee in the Cumberland CID.
$5,150,000 from a property tax increase in the CID.
$8,670,000 in relocation of existing Cobb County property taxes.
I am fully aware of the details. If you go back the original thread on this stadium, I was the first to post them.
Again, 45% tax payer money of a basically single use stadium (Maybe they will host a concert before a game?).
The largest single source coming out of county-wide property taxes. Just because they did not raise county-wide property taxes today does not mean that money comes out of thin air. That means they will forgo using that money for other county services or lower property taxes.
In addition 3 other tax increases!!
Lets compare:
Falcons (MLS / Super Bowl, World Cup, Final Four, Concerts, etc) stadium funding:
-Existing Hotel / motel tax (no increase).
This has all been discussed before. So lets recap this for each side:
Braves- this was a pretty easy choice. They are getting a lot of free tax money and cuts of revenue from the surrounding area. They are a for-profit corporation from Colorado. They don't care about the historical ties to the city beyond how it effects their bottom line. But lets not pretend they would be moving without this huge hand-out.
Atlanta - This is a pride hit. They have a long history representing the "A". This feels like a betrayal to the city to most in it. But we cannot be raising hundreds of millions from new tax sources just to be paying the Braves to stay in a 17 year old stadium. That is bad policy. Plus the city will still get a lot of the business from people that travel to the city to see the Braves. Most will still rent cars, see sights, visit business, and stay at hotels in the city. This will give Summerhill a chance to heal and redevelop. Many fans in the city will feel less connected to the team and be going to less games. But those that do can still make it up there to games and are still not having to pay taxes to the team.
Other metro residents - Mostly neutral. For those not in Cobb, travel times will be about the same for many. Shorter for some a little longer for most. A new stadium will be nice and bring in a boost in attendance the first few years. This stadium will be better located to build a major transit line to connect it than Turner, and this added traffic may finally force Cobb to consider other options besides the car.
Cobb Leaders - This is a win for them. They get to spin this into a victory for Cobb and how it will boost businesses. They are also offering lots of tax breaks to bring business in near by so this seems like a big win. They will all be gone from office by the time things start to fall apart years from now.
Cobb Residents - They are on the losing end of this. Those that are big fans do get to games a little quicker and the pride of the "Cobb" Braves. But they will have to deal with the traffic the other times of the year. Plus stadiums have a history of harming property values. Few corporate HQ's consider being next to a MLB stadium a bonus they look for. And Cobb residents and business are paying taxes directly to the Braves. Even if you were a fan, not sure why you would not move across the line to Unincorporated Fulton which now has lower property taxes than Uni-Cobb.
Right. I'd rather hypothetically give my county a few additional bucks in taxes and attend games in Cobb, rather than sit in traffic trying to get to/from Turner Field. It's one of the reasons I haven't attended more games. Leaving the game in the 7th or 8th inning defeats the purpose of going, and getting out of the choke points at Turner Field is ridiculous.
Getting to the Ted (and the old stadium) has never been easy. Although we live fairly close, traffic on the connector is wildly unpredictable.
Yes. I am in those threads. Not crazy about money going to Falcons either. But it is the reality we live in and is a much better deal. It is no additional tax, just continuing hotel tax already going to the Dome / GWCC. No property taxes. No tax increases. Only 17% of the stadium being paid for by the city, plus it can be used for a lot more uses including world class events.
What is Cobb getting?
35,000 x 81 new events per year = ~2.5 million attendees
What is COA getting for their $200 million?
The same events they have always been getting
65,000 x 10 Falcons games
65,000 x 3 major college games
18,000 x 17 soccer games (maybe)
+ a few random events
What World Class events will this attract?
Maybe 2 Super Bowls over 20 years?
A Final Four every 7 years?
A football National Championship game every 4 years?
81 dates and 2.5 million visitors are enough to build and spur development as we've seen in nearly every new MLB ballpark built in the last 15 years. The football stadiums tend not to spur development due to the small number of dates they are utilized. This is backed up with decades of evidence.
If COA was smart, they would've kept the Braves and let the Falcons move to the Burbs. Dallas gets major events despite Jerry World being away from their urban center. San Diego has been hosting Super Bowls for years in a stadium well away from their downtown. Miami's stadium is 15 miles from their urban center. It isn't like those attending major events in Miami, Dallas and San Diego aren't staying and spending money in cities. Had the Falcons moved to the Burbs in a new stadium, Atlanta still would've experienced the financial benefits of these events without any of the cost.
Will they really or is that just hype and hyperbole?
I posted in one of the threads a few weeks ago a breakdown of the number of days that would include a start that would align to an evening rush hour. It was a very small number. I don't remember the exact number, but I it was around 30 days a year. The rest were day games, weekend games, holiday games, etc.
30 out of 81 home games is still a very significant chunk of the schedule, and that doesn't include Saturdays when Cumberland Mall and the Galleria are busy with shopping traffic.
Quote:
Look, most people will come to the game in a staggered manner. Everyone isn't getting there at the same time. Many people will come from the north or from different directions. People will come from both directions on both I-75 and I-285. Contrast that will Turner Field where everyone funnels in on I-75/85 and exits at the same narrow choke point.
Based on the map the Braves released justifying the move, the bulk of attendees are going to be coming from the north (Cobb/Cherokee) and east (North Fulton/Gwinnett). As it's currently laid out, probably 90% of attendees would be funneled through the Cobb Parkway and Windy Hill exits which have direct access to the site. Even if you staggered traffic over a two hour period before the game, you would also have to contend with existing traffic in the Cumberland area which is an issue both during rush hour and on the weekends due to the malls.
Quote:
As for leaving the venue after the game....the hope is obviously that some people will stay and partake of some of the surrounding establishments. Even if people leave, the traffic isn't a factor at 10 or 11pm. As long as egress from the venue is managed and isn't bottlenecked as it always is at Turner Field, things should be fine.
You dump an additional 20-25,000 cars in an area at once, no amount of managed egress is going to prevent bottlenecking. The freeways around the Ted had the added benefit of being reconstructed in the mid-80s to handle stadium traffic at the old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium and still get swamped. Any similar reconstruction of the Cobb Cloverleaf is at least 10-20 years away based on GDOT's long-range plans, and the Northwest Corridor Managed Lanes project isn't slated to have a direct exit at Windy Ridge Parkway.
Quote:
I used to be able to get home from Fenway Park quicker than I do from Turner Field, despite Fenway being in the center of a crowded city.
Fenway also has an transit station next door, something the new stadium won't have (and the way Cobb views MARTA, won't for decades). How far did you live from Fenway?
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