Speed cameras in Atlanta (Roswell, Alpharetta: credit, how much, live in)

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I'm reading this back and forth and I think the burden should be on you to explain it.

We have intersection cameras and no one has challenged them successfully in court on those basis.

Additionally, this equipment vs human thing is a distraction.

You're accuser is still the people operating the camera if you take it to court, they can still show up.

Im pretty happy with red light cameras.

Had it been anyone else, I probably would have dug in, but here goes.

In this state, every offense is a crime, so every ticket is technically a misdemeanor arrest. With a purely automated ticketing system, a computer is arresting you. Most departments don't validate every ticket, and even when they do, how do they validate the speed component? Some devices also produce a series of still photos of a captured vehicle, but not necessarily all of them. At least with a red light camera, they generally capture a picture of the light with the vehicle past the stop bar, but there is no such verification with a speed camera.

With the other devices listed (brethalyzer, hand-held radar, etc), there is an officer present to serve as a witness to the offense prior to charges being filed. With cameras, the computer does it all, and the person has to prove that they did not in fact commit a violation, which is a violation of the presumption of innocence.

I have two comments referencing speed cameras. I don't want them everywhere, but... there are those few areas where people should be going reliably within the speed limit without hitting their brakes. For example inside a congested area where there is a reasonable speed limit. Not the first few lights entering the area.

For freeways they have systems where there are two sets of cameras and they capture your license plate, then rather than using radar the two cameras calculate how long it took you to travel half a mile, 1 mile, or miles. There is no calibration error and no slamming breaks. It is a prolonged awareness of how fast you're constantly going. It is more common on freeways and sometimes used in conjunction with those changeable speed limit signs. The idea is its not a single point enforcement, but the way people drive over along distance is what is important.

I'm not bullish on them really, but I can see how they could be used in good ways is placed carefully and not put -everywhere-

They can use the average speed between points, but not all of them do, and it also requires positive identification of the driver. Referencing what I wrote about about traffic offenses in this state being criminal offenses, unlike some areas which are "owner liability" where the owner must pay unless they identify the perpetrator, the cameras will also have to be able to positively identify the driver. I guarantee you that if these stupid things start springing up, I'm wearing a disguise when I drive, just enough of one to throw enough reasonable doubt to toss the case. My windshield is well-sloped anyways and should play havoc with reflections.

[billl]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Im pretty happy with red light cameras.

Are you? Even when the for-profit company that operates them and gets a cut of the revenue intentionally shortens the time for the yellow light so that more people will get caught by the red light camera?

Do you know why red light cameras in Georgia suddenly stopped bringing in enough revenue to pay for themselves?

But this thread is about speed cameras. And I'm sure that nothing like that would ever happen with those.

[Scared to Life]

Breathalyzers(Sp?) and other officer tools are considered evidence not testimony, that is why when you choose to go to trial and the officer does not show up your case is thrown out because there is no witnesses to testify. I am not a fan of these cameras because they automatically say that your guilty and it is hard to have an impartial trial with these cameras.

[billl]

Originally Posted by arjay57

With all the speeding and aggressive driving that goes on in this town you have to wonder why we don't have more speed cameras. I would support them.

Setting constitutional issues aside, speed cameras are (as I understand it) not permitted by current state law, which requires that any speed detection device be operated by a registered or certified peace officer.

[AtlantaComment]

Speed and red light cameras make zero contribution to safer roads and are merely a revenue generation tool (though often more revenue flows to the camera contractor than to the government!).

The guilty until proven innocent aspect of the camera issued tickets is quite troubling as well.

There is no place for these in Atlanta.

[arjay57]

Cameras just seem like a great idea to me.

My one personal experience was getting tagged by a red light camera on Peachtree. Traffic was very light but the fact is I'd entered the intersection too late and the camera nabbed me.

Boom. The photo was the cold hard evidence.

What could I say?

It reminded me to be more careful. Although that was years ago I still keep the lesson in mind and drive more safely.

[tikigod311]

If law enforcement just enforced traffic laws every once in a while we would be a lot better off.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

If law enforcement just enforced traffic laws every once in a while we would be a lot better off.

Wise words, tiki.

I'd prefer enforcement by live police officers but since they can't be everywhere all the time I'd supplement with speed cameras in sensitive areas. It's a sad fact that too many commuters treat intown neighborhoods as if they were highways.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Wise words, tiki.

I'd prefer enforcement by live police officers but since they can't be everywhere all the time I'd supplement with speed cameras in sensitive areas. It's a sad fact that too many commuters treat intown neighborhoods as if they were highways.

I think we could achieve the desired effect without cameras. The threat of consequences will be enough to curb much of the bad behavior. As it is now, there is very little threat of a ticket, which is a failure of our PD.

I just hate the cameras. It seems like everything is moving to an ever present watching eye. It will soon get to the point where I will constantly have to be checking myself to make sure I'm not violating a law. Yes, this is just a speed camera, but its the constant progression that needs to be stopped, IMO.

Plus, we get to employ real police officers rather than send a large percentage of the fine to a third party.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I think we could achieve the desired effect without cameras. The threat of consequences will be enough to curb much of the bad behavior. As it is now, there is very little threat of a ticket, which is a failure of our PD.

How do we achieve the deterrent effect without cameras? People ignore posted speed limits signs and the city doesn't have money to run traffic enforcement with live officers.