52 miles of HOT lanes being built with plans to serve expanded GRTA routes (Atlanta: 2014, law)

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

Widening I-75 to 17 lanes, extending Georgia 400, widening I-285, expanding the Cobb Cloverleaf, building spaghetti junction, widening I-85, widening the downtown connector, replacing virtually every interchange with more complicated ones. It has been virtually one-sided for 20 years, that's for sure. Just like the U.S.

Still seems to me that more ADVANCED roads, rather than just MORE of them, plus more transit is the only way forward.

Some of the pricier items on your list mostly happened in the early to mid-80s during the freeing the freeways years.

Which is definitely older than a couple decades at this point.

After that the Region took a major downturn in transportation funding, despite the fact we nearly doubled in size since that program.

Even the GA 400 extension is older than 20 years old and was constructed in the early 90s.

Most of the work that has been done is a re-work of the GA316/I-85N interchange adding a C/D system along I-85N. The C/D system for the connector (not a widening exactly!, C/D systems are smart for traffic flow and interchanges!), a handful of interchanges (3 DDIs, Memorial Drive, amongst a couple others), and small bits of small widening at the periphery of the interstates leaving the region.

Most major interchanges have been untouched for 20 years.

The problem is in your argument about one-sided is you are blaming roads, but the problem is actually overall transportation spending.

MARTA was built in the same era as freeing the freeways. The tax structure for how it was built is still in place and has been mostly untouched. At the same time money for other transportation projects has dwindled.

[AtlantaIsHot]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Some of the pricier items on your list mostly happened in the early to mid-80s during the freeing the freeways years.

Which is definitely older than a couple decades at this point.

After that the Region took a major downturn in transportation funding, despite the fact we nearly doubled in size since that program.

Even the GA 400 extension is older than 20 years old and was constructed in the early 90s.

Most of the work that has been done is a re-work of the GA316/I-85N interchange adding a C/D system along I-85N. The C/D system for the connector (not a widening exactly!, C/D systems are smart for traffic flow and interchanges!), a handful of interchanges (3 DDIs, Memorial Drive, amongst a couple others), and small bits of small widening at the periphery of the interstates leaving the region.

Most major interchanges have been untouched for 20 years.

The problem is in your argument about one-sided is you are blaming roads, but the problem is actually overall transportation spending.

MARTA was built in the same era as freeing the freeways. The tax structure for how it was built is still in place and has been mostly untouched. At the same time money for other transportation projects has dwindled.

I wasn't trying to create an EXACT timeline... The 20 year quote wasn't meant to be so literal. I do recall some major roadwork being planned or talked about prior to the Olympics. Did that not happen?

Moving on, my argument is the same as yours. I am not in fact "blaming" roads. I am blaming (if that word is even appropriate) the lack of adequate investment in little else by the leaders who are supposed to be planning for the future. I reiterate, I support a balanced transportation network-better roads included. Limited investment IS the overall problem. But what investment there has been in the US during the past few decades has been skewed toward road-building. Amtrack withered, few mass transit systems were built, and in some cases systems were torn up. Atlanta had streetcars and electric buses until the mid-20th century. MARTA is a terrific system, hamstrung though it may be by the state and suburbs. There has been a bias in public finance toward roads for a long time nearly everywhere in the U.S. and I don't think any reasonable person can find fault with that point

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

I wasn't trying to create an EXACT timeline... The 20 year quote wasn't meant to be so literal. I do recall some major roadwork being planned or talked about prior to the Olympics. Did that not happen?

Moving on, my argument is the same as yours. I am not in fact "blaming" roads. I am blaming (if that word is even appropriate) the lack of adequate investment in little else by the leaders who are supposed to be planning for the future. I reiterate, I support a balanced transportation network-better roads included. Limited investment IS the overall problem. But what investment there has been in the US during the past few decades has been skewed toward road-building. Amtrack withered, few mass transit systems were built, and in some cases systems were torn up. Atlanta had streetcars and electric buses until the mid-20th century. MARTA is a terrific system, hamstrung though it may be by the state and suburbs. There has been a bias in public finance toward roads for a long time nearly everywhere in the U.S. and I don't think any reasonable person can find fault with that point

You can hardly even consider Amtrak as a real effort on the U.S.'s part. It was meant to provide a buffer between transitioning from the massive passenger rail networks and alternative modes (see the interstates and air travel). It was supposed to fade out of existence.

Thankfully, it's stayed around and fights the good fight despite the lack of real interest, or appropriate funding from the feds.

[AtlantaIsHot]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

You can hardly even consider Amtrak as a real effort on the U.S.'s part. It was meant to provide a buffer between transitioning from the massive passenger rail networks and alternative modes (see the interstates and air travel). It was supposed to fade out of existence.

Thankfully, it's stayed around and fights the good fight despite the lack of real interest, or appropriate funding from the feds.

My point exactly.

*side note: Amtrack I do think is generating interest now. Amtrack is seeing growth in passengers and revenue now and I have a link that shows foreign tourists are coming to ride across the country on them.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

per the document they are taking over the HOV lane and one general purpose lane on the connector.

They already did the expansion recently in the past.

If that happens, there's a governor who won't get re-elected.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

I wasn't trying to create an EXACT timeline... The 20 year quote wasn't meant to be so literal. I do recall some major roadwork being planned or talked about prior to the Olympics. Did that not happen?

Moving on, my argument is the same as yours. I am not in fact "blaming" roads. I am blaming (if that word is even appropriate) the lack of adequate investment in little else by the leaders who are supposed to be planning for the future. I reiterate, I support a balanced transportation network-better roads included. Limited investment IS the overall problem. But what investment there has been in the US during the past few decades has been skewed toward road-building. Amtrack withered, few mass transit systems were built, and in some cases systems were torn up. Atlanta had streetcars and electric buses until the mid-20th century. MARTA is a terrific system, hamstrung though it may be by the state and suburbs. There has been a bias in public finance toward roads for a long time nearly everywhere in the U.S. and I don't think any reasonable person can find fault with that point

Its 2015. The Olympics were 1996. Nothing happened from 400 opening around 94 until the last couple years and not that much the last couple of years. 1994-2015, that's 21 years.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

You can hardly even consider Amtrak as a real effort on the U.S.'s part. It was meant to provide a buffer between transitioning from the massive passenger rail networks and alternative modes (see the interstates and air travel). It was supposed to fade out of existence.

Thankfully, it's stayed around and fights the good fight despite the lack of real interest, or appropriate funding from the feds.

Its wasted billions. It is not a viable transportation form except for nostalgia and for people like John Madden, with the exception of a handful of routes. Maybe just the NE corridor. It needs to be scrapped and replaced with high speed rail where appropriate.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by bu2

Its wasted billions. It is not a viable transportation form except for nostalgia and for people like John Madden, with the exception of a handful of routes. Maybe just the NE corridor. It needs to be scrapped and replaced with high speed rail where appropriate.

Agree. I've looked into Amtrak for Atlanta to Philly when I go to grad school. I can actually take Philly to Lancaster and it's great. Cheap, faster than a car and I don't have to do anything. Free wifi and a charger. From ATL to Philly? Just as expensive as a plane, slower than a car. How is that ever going to be profitable here?

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

Agree. I've looked into Amtrak for Atlanta to Philly when I go to grad school. I can actually take Philly to Lancaster and it's great. Cheap, faster than a car and I don't have to do anything. Free wifi and a charger. From ATL to Philly? Just as expensive as a plane, slower than a car. How is that ever going to be profitable here?

What Amtrak are you looking at? I'm going to New York later this year and the sleeper was cheaper than flying (and without the tsa crap) and far faster than I could drive, and it's overnight so I don't burn a full day in transit.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by MattCW

What Amtrak are you looking at? I'm going to New York later this year and the sleeper was cheaper than flying (and without the tsa crap) and far faster than I could drive, and it's overnight so I don't burn a full day in transit.

I'm looking at 294 for a sleeper, 16 hour trip. I haven't looked in a while, they now give the cheaper options but for a seat. For ATL to PHL, you can get Spirit for 187. Others are all less than 250 for like a 2 hour flight.