52 miles of HOT lanes being built with plans to serve expanded GRTA routes

[AtlantaIsHot]

Originally Posted by bu2

Its 2015. The Olympics were 1996. Nothing happened from 400 opening around 94 until the last couple years and not that much the last couple of years. 1994-2015, that's 21 years.

I'm not sure why you are continuing with a non-existent argument. I do not disagree with you and I am saying pretty much the exact same thing. I already explained that 20 year misquote. And as my posts have made clear, I am not talking about just Atlanta, I am talking about a national problem, a very REAL and FACTUAL problem. (Lack of investment in infrastructure.)

Drop it please and thank you.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

Its wasted billions. It is not a viable transportation form except for nostalgia and for people like John Madden, with the exception of a handful of routes. Maybe just the NE corridor. It needs to be scrapped and replaced with high speed rail where appropriate.

I agree that high speed rail needs to be implemented in the already dedicated corridors, replacing the current trains operating along those corridors. I also believe that the non HSR routes need to be maintained, and mandate (with public funding aid if necessary, but it should be done with the tons of private funds they already have) that the Class 1s upgrade their signals to allow for higher than 79 MPH along those routes. Finally remove the enforcement of the Class1's keeping their train priority responsibilities, and make that law enforced by congress.

Those two things on long distance routes alone will greatly increase on time efficiency while decreasing travel times. After all, our trains (yes even the ones people make fun of for not looking 'sexy') can pull 110+ speeds, let alone 80+, if only they were allowed.

You say it Amtrak wastes money, when I see it more like any other transportation infrastructure. It isn't going to make money on it's own, no matter how much I'd love it to. It has had a less efficient return than other investments, but what can you expect if you starve the service from day one?

The NE corridor is a great example of just how close Amtrak can get to breaking even (they don't actually profit much, if at all, there when track maintenance is included) when given room to really work. They own a majority of the track, they are the ones granting track rights to freight and regional trains, all of which do just fine as well. Even this section, though, is in need of vast amounts of investment and capital improvements before it can actually be considered a High-Speed Line.

After all, we already own trains that could compete with quite a few of the European trains. The Acela train sets have a max operating speed of 150 MPH, with some saying they can be pushed faster, though their weight keeps them from getting up to 200 MPH. The main restricting factor is the track, which winds and twists through tight curves while moving through too many junctions and switches to allow consistent 150 MPH travel, despite having the trains to do so.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

I'm not sure why you are continuing with a non-existent argument. I do not disagree with you and I am saying pretty much the exact same thing. I already explained that 20 year misquote. And as my posts have made clear, I am not talking about just Atlanta, I am talking about a national problem, a very REAL and FACTUAL problem. (Lack of investment in infrastructure.)

Drop it please and thank you.

I misinterpreted what you wrote implying that a lot had happened on road building in the last 20 years in Atlanta.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I agree that high speed rail needs to be implemented in the already dedicated corridors, replacing the current trains operating along those corridors. I also believe that the non HSR routes need to be maintained, and mandate (with public funding aid if necessary, but it should be done with the tons of private funds they already have) that the Class 1s upgrade their signals to allow for higher than 79 MPH along those routes. Finally remove the enforcement of the Class1's keeping their train priority responsibilities, and make that law enforced by congress.

Those two things on long distance routes alone will greatly increase on time efficiency while decreasing travel times. After all, our trains (yes even the ones people make fun of for not looking 'sexy') can pull 110+ speeds, let alone 80+, if only they were allowed.

You say it Amtrak wastes money, when I see it more like any other transportation infrastructure. It isn't going to make money on it's own, no matter how much I'd love it to. It has had a less efficient return than other investments, but what can you expect if you starve the service from day one?

The NE corridor is a great example of just how close Amtrak can get to breaking even (they don't actually profit much, if at all, there when track maintenance is included) when given room to really work. They own a majority of the track, they are the ones granting track rights to freight and regional trains, all of which do just fine as well. Even this section, though, is in need of vast amounts of investment and capital improvements before it can actually be considered a High-Speed Line.

After all, we already own trains that could compete with quite a few of the European trains. The Acela train sets have a max operating speed of 150 MPH, with some saying they can be pushed faster, though their weight keeps them from getting up to 200 MPH. The main restricting factor is the track, which winds and twists through tight curves while moving through too many junctions and switches to allow consistent 150 MPH travel, despite having the trains to do so.

Amtrak beyond 300-500 miles is not competitive with planes. Below 150, its not competitive with cars or buses. In between, its not going to cut it at 79 mph. The current structure is a 130 year old Chicago centric model that really doesn't make sense and serves a lot of places that don't make sense when there are buses and automobiles.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

Amtrak beyond 300-500 miles is not competitive with planes. Below 150, its not competitive with cars or buses. In between, its not going to cut it at 79 mph. The current structure is a 130 year old Chicago centric model that really doesn't make sense and serves a lot of places that don't make sense when there are buses and automobiles.

Pretty much, which is why it needs a real boost, not just the pathetic scraps that Congress feels oh so charitous for giving.

Personally, as I would like to see a statewide and lead push at actually building transportation other than roads (though we need to figure out a sustainable funding source for their maintenance ASAP), I want to see a real push from the Feds for a national transportation/infrastructure investment.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro
per the document they are taking over the HOV lane and one general purpose lane on the connector.

They already did the expansion recently in the past.

Originally Posted by bu2

If that happens, there's a governor who won't get re-elected.

Which governor won't get re-elected?

Georgia Governor Nathan Deal was handily re-elected in 2014 partly on the strength on his delivery of the new OTP suburban toll lane projects (in Cobb, Henry and Gwinnett) and is serving in his 2nd and final term in office.

The next gubernatorial election in Georgia is not until 2018 when there will be no incumbent in the race.

With Nathan Deal having been re-elected to a second and final term as governor, if he wanted to expand the toll lane system with the conversion of existing HOV lanes he could do without political penalty to himself.

Nathan Deal could probably also expand the toll lane system with the conversion of existing HOV lanes without much penalty to the Georgia Republican Party seeing as though the GOP currently occupies all statewide offices and holds supermajorities in the Georgia Legislature and will likely do so for at least the next decade or so.

The only thing that seems to be holding the state back from converting more HOV lanes to toll lanes is a severe lack of funding at the moment.

Nathan Deal did not get the blame for the conversion of the I-85 HOV lanes to HOT lanes in 2011 because that conversion process was set in motion under previous governor Sonny Perdue.