MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Dunwoody: shoppers, suburbia)

[fieldm]

I got there late. Most of the questions that the city council members asked could have been answered a long time ago and most of the answers could have been found on Google in 10 seconds. Most of the council members acted like this was their first time seeing the transportation project list. I would recommend you all contacting your council members to make sure they aren't bsing around. Most were asking questions about why this project was choose and why other projects werent choose. I'm thinking to myself why didn't they contact them to go over the list prior instead of waiting until now if it was so important.


These are the council members that I saw speak because I got there late....

Council Member Michael Julian Bond: He wants the green line Bankhead line extended to Proctor Creek. He talked about this for a long time.

Council Member C.T. Martin: Was probably the most uninformed council member that I heard. It seemed like this was the first time hearing about the transportation tax. Asking dumb questions. Asking questions about things that could have been researched on Google.

Council Member Howard Shook: He asked about how many cars could possibly be taken off the road with the CC. I looked that answer up in 5 seconds and found that the answer is that 50k cars are on those roads trying to get to the CDC/Emory/etc daily. He also asked about which projects would possibly take cars off the road in Buckhead. He also looked like this was his first time looking at this list. He said that some residents of Buckhead might not want rail on the Beltline and one of the gentlemen that he asked that question to told him that is true and there are some people that don't want trails on the Beltline and only want light rail. He basically told him that they can't please everyone

Council Member Keisha Lance Bottoms: She said it wasn't that many transit projects for her area of the city in the Cascade Rd area. She said she and her family was driving around Virginia- Highland last Sunday and saw little kids playing, riding bikes and eating ice cream. She said she wants her kids to be able to do that on Cascade Rd She doesnt understand that O4W/etc is more dense than Cascade Rd and you just can't compare suburns to in-town communities.

Council Member Cleta Winslow: She mainly asked questions regarding transportation around the Grant Park area and the plans for transportation around the AUC


Overall it was a good discussion. I think once they review the information that was given to them today they will better understand what is going on. Keith Parker said he will be in contact with everyone to make sure their questions are answered.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fieldm

Nobody never said it was it and that wasnt the point. That's like saying New Orleans shouldn't visit LA to get info on the tax breaks for the movie industry because LA isn't like New Orleans

Heavy rail doesn't define Atlanta.

Solutions for a city as unique as NYC have less applicability than solutions in more similar cities like Dallas.

[fieldm]

Originally Posted by bu2

Heavy rail doesn't define Atlanta.

Heavy rail in Atlanta: 48 millions
Streetcar: 2 miles
Light rail: 0 Miles




But Heavy Rail doesn't define Atlanta lol.....Whatever that makes you sleep better at night bro

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

Heavy rail doesn't define Atlanta.

Solutions for a city as unique as NYC have less applicability than solutions in more similar cities like Dallas.

It's all about what fits the corridor and the direction the city wants to go. MARTA, despite being some 42 miles shorter than DART, has over twice as many weekday riders, and four times the rider per mile that DART does.


Heavy rail might not be the solution everywhere here in the metro (it certainly isn't), but Atlanta is certainly getting its bang per mile out of it.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

It's all about what fits the corridor and the direction the city wants to go. MARTA, despite being some 42 miles shorter than DART, has over twice as many weekday riders, and four times the rider per mile that DART does.


Heavy rail might not be the solution everywhere here in the metro (it certainly isn't), but Atlanta is certainly getting its bang per mile out of it.

What surprises me is that anyone thinks HRT is the solution in suburban communities anywhere including NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, etc. In those cities, the suburuban communities are served by commuter rail or light rail lines that connect to the heavy rail lines in the city center. Given we have rail lines running through almost every suburban downtown in this metro, it shouldn't be rocket science to figure out a fix for this.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

What surprises me is that anyone thinks HRT is the solution in suburban communities anywhere including NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, etc. In those cities, the suburuban communities are served by commuter rail or light rail lines that connect to the heavy rail lines in the city center. Given we have rail lines running through almost every suburban downtown in this metro, it shouldn't be rocket science to figure out a fix for this.

HRT makes the most and only sense when extending 400 North and I-20 East.
Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton have rail lines that can be expanded to run commuter rail on.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

What surprises me is that anyone thinks HRT is the solution in suburban communities anywhere including NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, etc. In those cities, the suburuban communities are served by commuter rail or light rail lines that connect to the heavy rail lines in the city center. Given we have rail lines running through almost every suburban downtown in this metro, it shouldn't be rocket science to figure out a fix for this.

That's not really true. Chicago has the El pushing out into the suburbs, with Metra picking up between the lines. There are pushes for more El lines as well out in the edges. The El doesn't go as far as Metra, but to say it doesn't go out into the suburbs is wrong.

NYC also has a bit of this, though their outer boroughs are significantly more dense than our suburbs.

Washington DC also has the Metro run out into suburbs.



Heavy rail isn't an answer for every suburb, but as cqholt said, it makes sense OTP where there's both density, and non existing rail corridors. Places like the GA 400 corridor, the I-20 East corridor, I-85 Northeast corridor, the Cobb Parkway / I-75 Northwest corridor, etc.

That, coupled with an extensive commuter rail network following historic downtown and existing rights of way would increase our metro's commuting capacity greatly. Even more so as HRT, light rail / streetcar, and rapid/frequent bus services are improved within the core and ITP.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

That's not really true. Chicago has the El pushing out into the suburbs, with Metra picking up between the lines. There are pushes for more El lines as well out in the edges. The El doesn't go as far as Metra, but to say it doesn't go out into the suburbs is wrong.

It's not remotely the same scale though. The CTA lines extend AT MOST 1/2 the distance from Chicago as the METRA lines. The absolute farthest branch of the CTA is about 16 miles. Doraville from downtown Atlanta is about 15 miles. METRA's shortest line is 31.5 miles, the METRA Electric line to University Park, but beyond that city, there's basically farm fields. The longest line is Union Pacific-Northwest line at 70 miles. There's also the South Shore line which runs up to 90 miles to South Bend, IN though it becomes more of a regional rail service maybe 3/4ish of the way out.

NYC also has a bit of this, though their outer boroughs are significantly more dense than our suburbs.

NYC has this extensively, not "a bit." Its subway service doesn't have nearly the reach of its three commuter rail operators, and its subway service doesn't even serve to the Queens outer borough border.

Washington DC also has the Metro run out into suburbs.

Again, not nearly the same, and most of the long-distance lines are along areas without conventional rail corridors, or extremely dense suburbs (Red Line where it "shares" the corridor with MARC).

Heavy rail isn't an answer for every suburb, but as cqholt said, it makes sense OTP where there's both density, and non existing rail corridors. Places like the GA 400 corridor, the I-20 East corridor, I-85 Northeast corridor, the Cobb Parkway / I-75 Northwest corridor, etc.

I-85 NE and Cobb Parkway/I-75 both have existing rail lines.

That, coupled with an extensive commuter rail network following historic downtown and existing rights of way would increase our metro's commuting capacity greatly. Even more so as HRT, light rail / streetcar, and rapid/frequent bus services are improved within the core and ITP.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

That's not really true. Chicago has the El pushing out into the suburbs, with Metra picking up between the lines. There are pushes for more El lines as well out in the edges. The El doesn't go as far as Metra, but to say it doesn't go out into the suburbs is wrong.

True, but clearly Metra is the suburban solution and the El is for the city for the most part.

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

NYC also has a bit of this, though their outer boroughs are significantly more dense than our suburbs.

The outer boroughs are not suburbs. Places like Long Island are.

[/quote]Washington DC also has the Metro run out into suburbs.[/quote]

DC and the Bay Area are the exception but, despite what local boosters will tell you, using HRT to extensively serve the suburbs isn't quite working out well at the moment. There are huge costs maintaining what's in place that wouldn't exist if traditional commuter rail was used. I just read a story the other day where the author postulated that it has worked in our favor that MARTA only expanded out to the inner burbs. That's why we're now in the position where we are talking about expansion, rather than how do we pay for the repairs that will keep trains from derailing or catching fire.

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Heavy rail isn't an answer for every suburb, but as cqholt said, it makes sense OTP where there's both density, and non existing rail corridors. Places like the GA 400 corridor, the I-20 East corridor, I-85 Northeast corridor, the Cobb Parkway / I-75 Northwest corridor, etc.

I-20 east and 400 north makes sense, but there are rail lines along the other two. I understand they are privately owned, but when has corporate welfare been out of the question in this State?

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

That, coupled with an extensive commuter rail network following historic downtown and existing rights of way would increase our metro's commuting capacity greatly. Even more so as HRT, light rail / streetcar, and rapid/frequent bus services are improved within the core and ITP.

Yeah, the fix isn't a complex one. We really just need to provide options where they currently don't exist.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by fieldm

Heavy rail in Atlanta: 48 millions
Streetcar: 2 miles
Light rail: 0 Miles




But Heavy Rail doesn't define Atlanta lol.....Whatever that makes you sleep better at night bro

Automobile traffic, trees, nice weather and Coca Cola define Atlanta.