Now they're after the mountain itself! (Stone Mountain, Franklin: real estate, homes, neighborhoods)
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Two of these gentlemen owned slaves I believe.Do the NAACP want this removed too?.
Yeah, and the guy on the far right was pretty racist for most of his life.
The distinction is that Washington and Jefferson were not and are not primarily defined by their slaveholding, nor Lincoln by his racism. The fact that Washington and Jefferson owned slaves is like the 15th most notable thing about them.
The interest in Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and Jefferson Davis, for most people, is primarily about their service to the Confederate cause. If they had never been involved in the Confederacy, would anyone have wanted to put their images on such a large monument, and to name so many things after them? The primary Confederate causes (despite the fact that Lee and Jackson were not themselves that gung-ho about slavery) were the preservation and protection of slavery in the states where it existed and in the U.S. territories, and the enforcement of fugitive slave laws.
So was Marilyn Monroe ... and about a million other people.
True, but combined with countless death threats, assassination plots, and an actual successful assassination, a much clearer picture emerges. The Targeting of Martin Luther King, Jr.
King was seen as a threat to White supremacy and the White establishment in his day, and many of the folks who are so quick to (selectively) quote him today (would have) hated his guts when he was actively pursuing civil rights for African Americans.
This guy speaks truth. Replace the words "confederate flag" with "Stone Mountain carving" and the point is the same. As a white guy, of course, I'm not allowed to have that opinion much less share this link. Whatever.
The fact that you can so casually post a link with the title "Foolish Negroes" shows how completely clueless, crass, out of touch, and insensitive you really are. I'd say what I'm really thinking but I'd like to remain on this forum.
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As I said in an earlier post, it's really unfortunate that so many people are getting worked up over things that are merely symbols of the root issue rather than the issues themselves. Dylann Roof wanted a race war -- and he's gonna get it because of misguided crap like this.
Yeah, because some White folks are becoming completely unhinged over these "mere symbols" as you call them. If the symbols are so meaningless and inconsequential, then removing them shouldn't be a big deal.
So before I even start commenting in this thread, let me ask: How many posts past the OP did it take before the fragile whiteness began showing up?
Will someone please, please, at long last, consider the feelings of the white people?
On a serious note, I don't personally understand how people can take criticism of what their great-great-great grandparents did so personally like it's a reflection on them (e.g., Ben Affleck). I don't feel the slightest impulse to defend my ancestors' honor. As a white male, I don't feel at all guilty for slavery, Jim Crow, or our country's racist policies (up until the time I could vote), even though as a white American I've undoubtedly benefitted from all of these to some extent. I feel guilty about things I do or don't do, about things I can change.
This is something we can do something about. We have a state-owned monument that, in 2015, uncritically commemorates two military leaders and one political leader of a movement whose primary purpose was the perpetuation and protection of the enslavement of the ancestors of 30% of our fellow Georgians. It's the number one attraction in our state. It's sad, but more Georgians probably get their ideas about the Civil War from the laser show than any textbook. It perpetuates and reinforces a Lost Cause-lite view of the Confederacy, Civil War, and postwar period that I heard when I was in high school and I'm sure Georgia high-school students are still hearing from their U.S. History/football coach teachers.
I don't know that I'm in favor of removing the carving, but I think the state could add some context to the memorial in various ways. The King quote idea is a good one, but to me it would seem jarring to have those words next to those figures.
This guy speaks truth. Replace the words "confederate flag" with "Stone Mountain carving" and the point is the same. As a white guy, of course, I'm not allowed to have that opinion much less share this link. Whatever.
As I said in an earlier post, it's really unfortunate that so many people are getting worked up over things that are merely symbols of the root issue rather than the issues themselves. Dylann Roof wanted a race war -- and he's gonna get it because of misguided crap like this. How disgusting and pathetic and totally disrespectful to the 9 souls who perished in Charleston.
At least you are keeping it real. You are really exposing yourself with this comment.
Respectfully, I suspect you've got a reflexive reaction on some of this that triggers some of the defensive responses you get. I don't think anyone believes Blacks were suddenly on equal footing in 1865 or 1960.
Without defending the "welfare" argument, its not that Blacks were fine in 1960 and suffered with welfare. The argument is that the persistence of disproportionate levels of Black poverty is because welfare didn't encourage work and that Blacks would have otherwise made more progress in narrowing the income and education gaps. The very argument acknowledges that Blacks had to have been in a worse position on average before the anti-poverty programs were enacted.
What sort of "reflexive" action do you think I have lol?
As someone else stated in 1960 over 50% of black people were in poverty. In the 1930s-1950 nearly 80?% of black Americans lived in poverty. Today only 24-27% do. So that is why it is silly IMO for so many ignorant people to try to claim that black people today are "worse off" than we were in the 1960s.
Educationally as well black Americans were worse off during that time period. There are more high school and college graduates and those with graduate degrees today than at any other time period in this country. Black wealth, even though it is sorely behind whites, is higher in the past 20 years than it has ever been in this country as well.
When people try to tell me about how blacks are worse off today, I will admit my reflexive reaction is to roll my eyes because those people don't know what they hell they are talking about. When faced with these facts above, they will then try to tell me (a married woman with 2 kids) about how the out of wedlock birthrate is causing negative black statistical figures in regards to crime and education.
I tell them, that crime has decreased substantially over the past 30-40 years in every major metropolitan area in the country with a substantial black population. Look at Atlanta if you don't believe me. And again, educational achievement is higher today than it was in the past so even out of wedlock births are not doing as much damage as you think. I will also remind them that white out of wedlock birthrates have increased substantially since the 1970s yet educational achievement for whites has not decreased as a result and crime has not increased for whites either, like for blacks, it has decreased. So this is not the direct cause of social ills like people think it is.
The main reason why black people are behind whites in regards to the income gap and educational achievement gap is because black people were shut out of an equal economic system and could not gain wealth like whites could, even newly immigrated whites in the 20th century. In our country is has been shown that wealth and economic status of the family follows the child. In the majority of the country, black people were not able to obtain mortgages to buy homes. Any white could buy a home in the burbs or anywhere they wanted to buy and if they had a job and decent credit history, then they could get a mortage. Due to that, whites, who were also majority in poverty at the beginning of the 1900s were able to obtain a much higher net worth than blacks in this country in the 20th century. It was not until the 1970s that blacks were able to do the same, which is why today you see a "black flight" of higher income blacks from poor inner city neighborhoods over the past 30-40 years. More black people today live in the suburbs versus the inner city. Not having the opportunity to accumulate wealth for over 100 years after slavery is the reason why you see the negative statistics for blacks in this country. Not any of the phony social reasons that many people like to claim. It is interesting that after Fair Housing laws were passed that these statistics have mad a huge turnaround since the 1970s in particular.
But people don't want to talk about this. They want to act as if there is something inherently wrong with black people as a whole (aka white supremacy ideology) and think that the recent past has no affect on current generations. I was born in the late 1970s and am the first generation of my family who has been "free" to live my life the way I want, live where I want, got to school where I want, work and rise in rank based on my knowledge and skills without being denied that opportunity based upon my skin color. My mom and grand parents and great grandparents were not so lucky and many other black people's parents and grand parents and great grandparents were WAY worse off than mine were. My grandparents and great grandparents in particular were very well off compared to most black people in the country. My grandmother was college educated and graduated in the 1950s. All of my great grandparents went to integrated schools in Ohio as early as 1905 forward as education in our area was not denied anyone based on skin color. But once they got into the job market, they could only work in certain, low ranking/low paying jobs, and they could only live in certain areas of town (blacks, Polish, and Irish where I'm from lived in integrated neighborhoods but there would be an Irish block and Polish block and black block, etc.) After WW2 they made more money but the job prospects and housing prospects were still limited. The Irish and Polish could and many did move out to the suburbs (today we don't have a culturally ethnic Irish community in my hometown due to this, the Polish still have a neighborhood as they were more reviled than the Irish but by the 1960s and 1970s, they too partook in "white flight" and a majority of them moved away from the inner city ethnic neighborhood). Blacks where I'm from could not buy a house in a non-redlined neighborhood until the late 1970s. My great grandparents bought a house the year I was born in a neighborhood that is still considered highly sought after in my home town and many of my other family members did the same thing after they did. Many black people in the 1970s and 1980s did not have the money to do what my great grandparents did nor the education to put toward better career prospects and promotions.
At least you are keeping it real. You are really exposing yourself with this comment.
The fact that he'd even cite such an exceptionally condescending, offensive, and inaccurate article like that when there are several others out there that make the same general point in a much less patronizing and haughty tone speaks VOLUMES.
And I won't even get into the dehumanizing implications of this diatribe, as if Black people are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same damn time. GTFOHWTB
The main reason why black people are behind whites in regards to the income gap and educational achievement gap is because black people were shut out of an equal economic system and could not gain wealth like whites could, even newly immigrated whites in the 20th century. . . But people don't want to talk about this. They want to act as if there is something inherently wrong with black people as a whole (aka white supremacy ideology) and think that the recent past has no affect on current generations. I was born in the late 1970s and am the first generation of my family who has been "free" to live my life the way I want, live where I want, got to school where I want, work and rise in rank based on my knowledge and skills without being denied that opportunity based upon my skin color.
I can't rep you anymore but let me say thanks for this and your other posts.
The main reason why black people are behind whites in regards to the income gap and educational achievement gap is because black people were shut out of an equal economic system and could not gain wealth like whites could, even newly immigrated whites in the 20th century. In our country is has been shown that wealth and economic status of the family follows the child. In the majority of the country, black people were not able to obtain mortgages to buy homes. Any white could buy a home in the burbs or anywhere they wanted to buy and if they had a job and decent credit history, then they could get a mortage. Due to that, whites, who were also majority in poverty at the beginning of the 1900s were able to obtain a much higher net worth than blacks in this country in the 20th century. It was not until the 1970s that blacks were able to do the same, which is why today you see a "black flight" of higher income blacks from poor inner city neighborhoods over the past 30-40 years. More black people today live in the suburbs versus the inner city. Not having the opportunity to accumulate wealth for over 100 years after slavery is the reason why you see the negative statistics for blacks in this country. Not any of the phony social reasons that many people like to claim. It is interesting that after Fair Housing laws were passed that these statistics have mad a huge turnaround since the 1970s in particular.
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