Northside Drive Corridor Improvement Project (I-20 to I-75) (Atlanta, White: buy, costs)

[DirkMcGirt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Careful now, just because someone doesn't prefer one mode in a location, doesn't mean they don't like that mode in another location entirely.

BRT and Streetcar / LRT each have a place here.

For $100 million, you could've had a system of of the newest buses available running all through downtown providing much greater connectivity. Done correctly, it would've spurred investment as well as creating a viable transportation solution rather than a streetcar to nowhere that is so poorly manage that it still can't even charge customers for usage.

[DirkMcGirt]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The Streetcar is a 1st piece of the streetcar network, that has to have a cross-downtown line. Also, Auburn Ave is already served by bus and the ridership is low in that corridor. Also, first time riders are more reluctant to ride a bus. Finally, the streetcar was also an economic tool that is now proving to work as more than $1B of investment has been built or planned projects.

You act as though without the streetcar, development would not have occurred. Put a nice busway through the area with dedicated ROW and stops like Cleveland did and you would've seen similar results at a fraction of the cost. Also, without either of these, some development would've still occurred. Some would've occurred along the route and some would've occurred elsewhere. Using $100 million in transportation funding as an economic development tool to steer development to less desirable locations is foolish. Use transportation money to solve transportation problems.

[primaltech]

The streetcar makes enough sense in Downtown, Midtown, and definitely around the Beltline (where you can't do a BRT.) It'll be a lot better when they make needed speed improvements, like traffic light priority at the least.

Buckhead can do a BRT for the underserved Peachtree Rd corridor, if that works better for them. Or at least a limited stop rapid bus.

[DirkMcGirt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

The streetcar makes enough sense in Downtown, Midtown, and definitely around the Beltline (where you can't do a BRT.) It'll be a lot better when they make needed speed improvements, like traffic light priority at the least.

Buckhead can do a BRT for the underserved Peachtree Rd corridor, if that works better for them. Or at least a limited stop rapid bus.

What is the difference between streetcars and buses downtown when they both aren't run on dedicated ROW? Get a nice new articulated streetcar and you almost match the capacity of the streetcar. It isn't like capacity is an issue either with the low ridership numbers the route generates. You could've put up nice stops with shelters and nice markings along the current route and run buses for pennies on the dollar of the streetcar. Heck, for a little bit more, you could've given the bus it's own lane. This would've been faster than the streetcar and still cost a lot less. Buses could be run anywhere that the streetcar could run. It could be done for less. I'm in favor of more extensive, efficient transit, not just very limited luxury transit that doesn't solve transportation problems.

[fourthwarden]

This is not a thread about the downtown streetcar. Take your complaints and opinions on it to one of the many threads already dedicated to it. This thread is about Northside-Drive.

So anyway, I know Cumberland isn't in the MARTA service area, and I know Cobb isn't too open to MARTA, but I bet the CID would pitch in for the route to end at the Cumberland Transfer center, maybe even helping a bit with getting the roads around there set up for bus lanes.

As for West End to Vine City, there're a few buildings along the route, but most of the curb-side stuff is parking lots and even open lots from West End to where Northside splits off W. Whitehall from what I can see. After that, Northside is 3 Lanes, with what looks to be enough room on either side to add a bus / streetcar lane if you dig into a bit of people's yards and the vacant lots.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

What is the difference between streetcars and buses downtown when they both aren't run on dedicated ROW? Get a nice new articulated streetcar and you almost match the capacity of the streetcar. It isn't like capacity is an issue either with the low ridership numbers the route generates. You could've put up nice stops with shelters and nice markings along the current route and run buses for pennies on the dollar of the streetcar. Heck, for a little bit more, you could've given the bus it's own lane. This would've been faster than the streetcar and still cost a lot less. Buses could be run anywhere that the streetcar could run. It could be done for less. I'm in favor of more extensive, efficient transit, not just very limited luxury transit that doesn't solve transportation problems.

Anybody can non-productively second guess anything past tense, and be entirely negative, which is I guess all you contribute around here? S70 rail vehicles were chosen by city officials and beltline officials, as the future transit plan for the city, which could tie in the beltline with the street corridors. So let's embrace that, figure out how to improve it. Because I am also a huge critic of the current streetcar in many ways, but I also see its potential of at least what it could be.

If you're suggesting abandon the streetcar, at this point that's ridiculous. The streetcar exists already, and it's going to serve the transit for the city, and has the distinct advantage of also serving the Beltline. That's the plan. Let's expand it and use it as best as possible. Take advantage of what it offers. Take a more positive outlook, quit it with all the second guessing and negativity. Make constructive and productive criticisms.

I am a big fan of the potential of buses, too. And they are indeed the best raw people moving bang for buck. Let's have MARTA run high frequency, high capacity, limited stop rapid bus routes, for all non-streetcar corridors, and for the quieter parts of Atlanta, and suburbs outside of the city limits. Heck, replace all local routes with rapid routes. And regardless of surface rail or bus, let's get some traffic signal syncing, and transit lanes.

Anyway, Northside Dr needs to be a complete street, with lanes for cars, lanes for transit, and lanes for bikes. And with good sidewalks and crosswalks. Ditto for every other major street and road around town.

You start out with that solid public infrastructure, then new private development can complement it.

[Atlwarrior]

Sorry but Historic West End residents don't want to be the avenue for the new stadium people to access the interstate through our beautiful neighborhood. Those dummies at the Georgia Department of Transportation should have been smarter at planning and building the connector. West End don't want to cater to a bunch of surburban brats that don't even live in Atlanta.

[alco89]

Originally Posted by Atlwarrior

Sorry but Historic West End residents don't want to be the avenue for the new stadium people to access the interstate through our beautiful neighborhood. Those dummies at the Georgia Department of Transportation should have been smarter at planning and building the connector. West End don't want to cater to a bunch of surburban brats that don't even live in Atlanta.

I don't really see how this would effect the West End at all.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

For $100 million, you could've had a system of of the newest buses available running all through downtown providing much greater connectivity. Done correctly, it would've spurred investment as well as creating a viable transportation solution rather than a streetcar to nowhere that is so poorly manage that it still can't even charge customers for usage.

Guess, what MARTA has a fleet of the newest buses running thru downtown providing connectivity. Still do not see many demand riders on the bus.
Welcome to New Flyer!

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by alco89

I don't really see how this would effect the West End at all.

Yeah, West End is on the other side of I-20 from MBS.