The effort to split Fulton County in two is back again (Atlanta: buy, school)

[skbl17]

Anyway, here's the prefiled legislation. Keep in mind that this is a legislatively-referred constitutional amendment, so voter approval would be required.

- skbl17

[bUU]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

I can kind of see their point. They live 30 minutes away at minimum from the other side of the county, yet that is where a good amount their tax dollars are going. They are in essence funding a welfare system on top of the federal level they already pay in income tax. Its a tough situation with no good solution. They cities they formed already keep some of it out of the county's hands. I think anyone, regardless of background, can see how residents would be annoyed that their money is funding projects that they will never take advantage of.

Yes and no. What you're saying, taken to what some would consider its "logical" conclusion, would rationalize all manner of callous disregard for the poor. It's like the guy at work who thinks that throwing you under the bus is a fine way of getting ahead himself.

The outrage is misdirected. Instead of punishing the victims by effectively making their county poorer and less able to bridge the gaps, we should be working to reduce the problem, eliminate the economic injustice, and put everyone in the state on a firm footing from which they can pay their own way - for everything. Poverty is our failure to get everyone working and making money themselves, and we should collectively take responsibility for that failure rather than trying to dodge it. There's no way to eliminate poverty, but it is far better to dilute a bitter pill then concentrate it.

And I'm saying that as someone who would especially benefit from the establishment of Milton County.

If anything, we should be looking in the other direction, doing away with concentrations of power at the county level. Georgia is rather unique in how much it is structured to foster the Balkanization that fourthwarden alluded to. The state takes so little responsibility for so much. Many other states rely much less on counties for such things. They capitalize on economies of scale to alleviate some of the problems related to poverty, as well as the ability to spread the load more broadly (and therefore less deeply).

[tikigod311]

I don't care either way too much, but it seems like a bad idea.

But look at the outline of Fulton County. It is stupid. These aren't logical borders, its like a gerrymandered congressional district. Not necessarily a good reason to split up, just saying...

[fourthwarden]

[quote=Caleb Longstreet;42382237]1) There are 109,000,000 Americans on some sort of welfare. Google it.[quote]

Just so you know. When I googled your numbers (you really should source it. Like THIS) That number is the number of Americans who live in a household in which one or more people within that household directly benefit from a form of welfare.

The Census Bureau defines 6 types of means-tested assistance programs. Where means-tested programs are those that require the income and/or assets of an individual or family to fall below specified thresholds in order to qualify for benefits. There may be additional eligibility requirements to receive these programs, which provide cash and noncash assistance to eligible individuals and families. These are the 6 major forms of welfare here in the U.S.

• Medicaid
  
• Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
• Housing Assistance
  
• Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
  
• General Assistance (GA)

In 2012, approximately 52.2 million people, or 21.3 percent of the population, participated in one or more major means-tested assistance programs, on average, each month.

Note that the direct participation number is MUCH lower (nearly half) of the number you reported. It helps when you provide sources though, and you don't include so many commas in your text. It makes you seem like an ideologue who can't see past their own furious passion for their opinion.



As for those who might not want to spend on a proverbial sink, I can understand that from a gut instinct kinda way. It's mine, I worked for it, I get it. I get that thought process, I have it plenty myself. The thing is, as others have said, it's ultimately better for everyone if we work together to pay for each other.

One day you, who has money, may not. One day, you may require assistance from friends, family, the church, the government. One day I may again require much the same. I, as someone going into a well-paying field, and who will most likely be one of the top 10% of earners in this county, will be more than happy to extend hands to those less fortunate than I, because I have been in their shoes. There was a time when we were struggling, and with the help of the state, and its public programs, as well as family, we were able to deal with our woes and bills and now I am on track to graduate from a top-end, but expensive engineering school.

That's what I want, and what I would hope others would want, for those who do not have it as good as we. A perfect example is infrastructure. Everyone benefits from increased mobility in a region via highway or rail or air, from the multinational trying to ship their product, to the small business owner looking to tap into costumers, to the young people looking for jobs in parts of town where they are available.

What about schools? The better educated a population, the better off that population is in making decisions that allow them to escape things like generational poverty and crime. It offers a relatively safe (most of the times anyway) place for young people to learn and be while their parents work, or look for work.

Yes, you will always have people who take advantage of the system, but that's so nearly insignificant a percentage compared to those who use the help they get as a bit of solid ground from which they're trying to get up.

Instead of trying to cut off what some consider a tumor, I suggest we try and treat it as the open wound it really is.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by skbl17

Anyway, here's the prefiled legislation. Keep in mind that this is a legislatively-referred constitutional amendment, so voter approval would be required.

- skbl17

What is the process of making an amendment to the State's Constitution?

[skbl17]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

What is the process of making an amendment to the State's Constitution?

Article X of the state constitution outlines the amendment process. First, unlike many other states (which allow amendments to be introduced by citizens through initiatives,) there are only two methods by which constitutional amendments can be proposed in the State of Georgia:

- A resolution introduced by the General Assembly, or
- A constitutional convention.

Most amendments are introduced in the General Assembly. Amendments must be introduced and passed as resolutions, and must obtain a two-thirds vote in each house. Unlike a traditional piece of legislation, the Governor cannot veto a constitutional amendment.

Upon passage of the resolution by the General Assembly, the amendment is then submitted to voters for approval. A simple majority is needed for the amendment to be passed.

- skbl17

[JC84]

Originally Posted by bUU

Yes and no. What you're saying, taken to what some would consider its "logical" conclusion, would rationalize all manner of callous disregard for the poor. It's like the guy at work who thinks that throwing you under the bus is a fine way of getting ahead himself.

The outrage is misdirected. Instead of punishing the victims by effectively making their county poorer and less able to bridge the gaps, we should be working to reduce the problem, eliminate the economic injustice, and put everyone in the state on a firm footing from which they can pay their own way - for everything. Poverty is our failure to get everyone working and making money themselves, and we should collectively take responsibility for that failure rather than trying to dodge it. There's no way to eliminate poverty, but it is far better to dilute a bitter pill then concentrate it.

And I'm saying that as someone who would especially benefit from the establishment of Milton County.

Not quite. The fact that North Fulton leaving would create huge financial problems for South Fulton should tell you something. No matter how much money the wealthier provide to these "victims" as you say, little really changes, does it? Poverty is no excuse for a lot of the problems that people honestly don't want to take accountability for. Out of wedlock births, up to 70% by some studies, and single parent households is a direct correlation to poverty. So is dropping out of high school. General poor decision making skills.

I'm a liberal but we have to truthfully address ALL of the factors that contribute to poverty instead of blaming it on the middle/upper middle class. I don't know why people are surprised that there's pushback to the notion of such a one-sided arrangement.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by JC84

Not quite. The fact that North Fulton leaving would create huge financial problems for South Fulton should tell you something. No matter how much money the wealthier provide to these "victims" as you say, little really changes, does it? Poverty is no excuse for a lot of the problems that people honestly don't want to take accountability for. Out of wedlock births, up to 70% by some studies, and single parent households is a direct correlation to poverty. So is dropping out of high school. General poor decision making skills.

I'm a liberal but we have to truthfully address ALL of the factors that contribute to poverty instead of blaming it on the middle/upper middle class. I don't know why people are surprised that there's pushback to the notion of such a one-sided arrangement.

You're liberal? Yes, and Ted Cruz's a socialist.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I don't care either way too much, but it seems like a bad idea.

But look at the outline of Fulton County. It is stupid. These aren't logical borders, its like a gerrymandered congressional district. Not necessarily a good reason to split up, just saying...

Exactly. Fulton County is a mess of completely different areas put together. Look at the county schools, the district is completely bisected. You can't have a logical central office. There's no choice but to split it up with Atlanta in the middle. I can't think of a more illogical county. Ware County is just as odd but at least the southern part is swampland. Whether or not that's reason enough to essentially reverse the dissolution of Milton County is debatable. But it at least makes sense as to why to split simply from a logistics point of view. Of course, there's a political tax mess to deal with but it at least makes more sense than East Cobb trying to split from South Cobb or Northeastern Gwinnett trying to split from western Gwinnett.

[Ant131531]

So if they do split, where does Atlanta go? Will North Fulton attempt to capture Atlanta as wealth and investment continues to pour into the city?