"How not to become Atlanta" (Auburn, Nashville: land, metro)

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by bu2

That's true, but you have to look at what those rankings measure-its delays vs. off peak around the whole city. Atlanta's off peak (with its limited arterial and freeway network) is much worse than DFW and Houston so its delays are relatively less. I've lived in all 3 cities. And its bad areas are much worse. DFW and Houston are worse in more directions (virtually all directions). Atlanta is really bad to the north and northeast but areas like I-20 west and I-85 south of the airport have very little delay. Also bad is I-75 in Henry County but you get delays 24 hours a day!!!! I almost never get through there without problems.

I've noticed that in other areas. Traffic is much more balanced across the metro in Houston or DFW. Atlanta is so concentrated in the northern burbs/north of I 20.

[hunterseat]

Are we talking Charlotte SC?! I LOVE Charlotte NC.

But we fell in love with Atlanta. We regret leaving but jobs dictated that we must. But they're different. And traffic IS bad. Lord have mercy if you can't admit Atlanta traffic sucks! I see people say "it's not that bad" well, you could say that if we were talking about a 10 mile stretch of road but the sheer volume of pavement that makes up the interstates in and around Atlanta. But people make do and everyone seems to get along.

Hopefully the burkas don't mean the really bad stuff is there...

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by hunterseat

Are we talking Charlotte SC?! I LOVE Charlotte NC.

What "Charlotte, SC"?

[Newsboy]

Originally Posted by Atlwarrior

This is so duplicitous, I never seen so many articles from city talking about another city. To me it show great hypocrisy for a city who constantly say we are not trying to be Atlanta , but yet continue do so many comparisons.

My new favorite word is duplicitous

[AtlantaIsHot]

Speaking as someone who lives 45 min. from the Mecklenburg county line, let me say that there are some truths to this but it gets lost in a layering of over-embellished negativity. I want to see facts. Show me the statistics that they base their claims on.


I can tell you what *I* can see with my own eyes:


Crime: Charlotte's crime is pretty bad, and it's rising. Charlotte's national crime database ranking is 11 (100 is safest). Charlotte is only "safer" than 11% of U.S. cities. Not very good either. It may be true that Atlanta's car theft stats are higher, but they didn't show the data.


Water: Atlanta's not going to run out of water. It is located in the super-wet subtropical southeast rain forest. It needs conservation policies and may have to pipe water in from somewhere, but if Phoenix and Las Vegas can exist in an almost rainless barren desert, solutions can and will be found. Charlotte's in the same boat so they will have to follow whatever Georgia does to remedy it.


Mass transit: Atlanta began planning MARTA in the 1960's. It began construction in the mid-1970's. It then had a population of 1.8 million. Charlotte metro now has passed 2.5 million and has a little less than 10 miles of light rail. In order to match the present day MARTA system, Charlotte will have to run Lynx lines up into Huntersville and Cornelius/Davidson, over to the airport, down to the Southpark Mall and Pineville, and over to Kannapolis. Whether they get it there or not remains to be seen and even if it does the population will be much bigger and more traffic on an underdeveloped road network will be worse.


Sprawl: Charlotte is definitely sprawling. I've watched Mooresville grow by leaps and bounds over the last decade and bring Iredell into the MSA by itself. All the interstates going into Charlotte are studded with signs advertising New Homes! From the $300,000's! with names like Goose Creek, Pine Knolls, Clayburne Hills, etc. etc. Formerly 2 lane country roads are being widened to 4, 5, and sometimes 6 lane highways where strip malls/Fudruckers/Applebees sprout like mushrooms on both sides. Ballantyne is now a picture perfect example of edge city-curvy 6 lane roads winding through business parks with fountains and man-made lakes and parking lot studded shopping centers all surrounded by landscaping. All this is spreading into South Carolina now too making it a bi-state metro (one of the worst for planning).


Like the Eagles song, when it comes to "being like Atlanta," it's alreeeeaaaaadddddy goooooooone...

[chiatldal]

Nashville had a article saying the same thing I have no issue with them looking at Atlanta mistakes but there criticism trip me out it's more like shade then actually making points.


First off Charlotte, Nashville and Atlanta all sprawl. The biggest difference between Charlotte/Nashville with Atlanta is not Atlanta sprawl more it's that Atlanta is significantly denser and more urban. Which is ironic to the point of the articles.

These articles don't mention they already sprawl they present it like it's Atlanta mistake they don't want to make as if their not already sprawling sunbelt cities. Then the fact Atlanta is actually more urban is just completely ignored.

Atlanta is 3,594,925 in 1,731 sq mi
Charlotte is 2,380,314 in 3,198 sq mi

Take Greater LA CSA for example include the inland Empire, It's kinda like if a Atlanta writer said we don't need to make the mistakes of LA sprawl. Mean while the biggest difference is actually LA is way more urban and denser than Atlanta.


They don't have to worry about Making ATL mistake with sprawl they already have, they need to focus on being more urban catching up.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Atlwarrior

This is so duplicitous, I never seen so many articles from city talking about another city. To me it show great hypocrisy for a city who constantly say we are not trying to be Atlanta , but yet continue do so many comparisons.

Atlantans are just hypersensitive. You go to growing cities in or near Texas and they will have articles about how to avoid doing this like Dallas or that like Houston. It simply means Atlanta is the leading city in the area.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

I've noticed that in other areas. Traffic is much more balanced across the metro in Houston or DFW. Atlanta is so concentrated in the northern burbs/north of I 20.

Well it may be coming in Atlanta. At some point development will spread in different directions. 15 years ago, if you drove less than 70 on the South Freeway towards Pearland in Houston, you would get run over. Now its about as bad as going I-10 West, I-69 Southwest, and I-45 North and South. Maybe Douglas County will start taking off.

[Newsboy]

Originally Posted by bu2

Atlantans are just hypersensitive. You go to growing cities in or near Texas and they will have articles about how to avoid doing this like Dallas or that like Houston. It simply means Atlanta is the leading city in the area.

How are Atlantans being hypersensitive? I figured out a long time ago that when the national media puts the spotlight on Atlanta, that's a good thing regardless of whether the focus is on something good or bad. Why? Because the national media does not pay attention to cities that are not important. A good example is the 2014 snowstorm. Yes, it was a mess of epic proportions and the media coverage it got was probably justified -- though I still blame CNN for over-playing the entire thing on the national level because so many of their people were affected personally. But even that, when you think about it, speaks volumes about how big and important a city Atlanta is on the national conscience. There were other cities in the Southeast that suffered similar weather woes during that storm, but Atlanta was the one that got all the media scrutiny and criticism. Why? Because we are the bigger and more important city.

Even the SNL "Weekend Update" sketch about the "2-inch blizzard" was a compliment. It was also hilariously funny!

It's when Atlanta criticism is misleading, erroneous or out of context that people get upset, and that is justified. I stated earlier in this thread, it's absurd for someone in a city without heavy rail rapid transit to lob criticism at another city for it's heavy rail rapid transit.

And finally, what the hell is wrong with people being proud and defensive of the city in which they live? Every city or small town in this country is inhabited by people who are fiercely proud to call it home -- and will defend it to the end if need be. That's called civic pride. It's inherent in us as human beings. Nobody wants to live any place where people don't have pride in the community. Such places are depressing beyond words and largely uninhabitable anyway.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Neither is Charlotte the site of its state capitol like Atlanta is, while Charlotte also has to compete with 2 other larger metro regions in North Carolina in Raleigh-Durham (the Triangle) and Greensboro/Winston-Salem (the Triad) while Atlanta is by far the dominant large major metro region in Georgia.

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I don't think not being a state capital is hindrance, nor is being in a state with other sizable metros. Miami, Houston, and DFW are great examples of that.

I didn't mean that not being the site of North Carolina's state capital and being in a state with other relatively large metros (like Raleigh and Greensboro) was a hindrance for a city/metro like Charlotte as much as (despite the vitriol often directed towards Atlanta by much of the rest of Georgia historically) being the site of Georgia's state capital has often been a benefit for a city/metro like Atlanta.

Being the site of Georgia's state capital and being the sole focal point of the state as the largest and most dominant metro area in the state of Georgia has more often than not been a major benefit for Atlanta.

Because it is the site of Georgia's state capital and the only large major metro region in the state, Atlanta has had the benefit of its state government making some big investments both in the city (state government investments in the Atlanta city/ like the Georgia World Congress Center, the Georgia Dome, the Freeing-the-Freeways reconstruction project of the 1980's and the continuing expansion of the Georgia State University campus in Downtown Atlanta) and on behalf of the city/metro in other parts of the state (like the continued expansion of the major international seaport at Savannah).

Meanwhile, while it is the largest city and metro in the state of North Carolina, a large major city/metro area like Charlotte is not the only large metro area in the state of NC which has two other large metro regions in Greensboro/Winston-Salem (the Triad) and Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill (the Triangle).

The Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill (the Triangle) region is notable because the largest city in the region (Raleigh) is the site of North Carolina's state capital. The Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill region is also the site of 2 major state-funded research universities (the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and North Carolina State University in Raleigh), 1 large state-funded HBCU (North Carolina Central University) and 1 large Ivy League-caliber private university (Duke University).

Because the Raleigh/Durham region is the site of North Carolina's state capital and 3 large state-funded universities and 1 large Ivy League-caliber private university, despite being the largest city/metro in North Carolina, the Charlotte area has had to compete for funding and attention from North Carolina state government with the Raleigh/Durham region which because of its major public and private assets seems to have a substantial advantage for state funding and attention from NC state government.