AJC Business: New home building boom fuels revival of robust Northside exurban growth patterns (Alpharetta: real estate, neighborhoods)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by hautemomma

Cobb is pretty much built out; the less developed areas are comprised of long-time, pre-building boom residential or industrial areas that aren't ripe for subdivision or multi-use development unless someone sells and the zoning is changed. I imagine this is true for non-CoA Fulton and Gwinnett counties as well.

ETA: Many of my neighbors and people in my neighborhood have lived in "dense," highly populated cities, here in the US and internationally, too. As much as some posters here think city living is the second coming, many people in the burbs (who they malign and dismiss habitually, and who happen to range in age from early 30s onward) have already "been there, done that." It's not a new way of life.

There are massive amounts of vacant land in Gwinnett and Fulton County. I see lots of empty space when I drive out to a place like Acworth in Cobb. Zoning does get changed.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by magnetar

I see this a lot here; commenters who think development is a zero-sum game, that those who argue that the cities are growing are claiming that no one wants to live in the suburbs anymore. It's the rural areas that are shrinking. http://www.census.gov/newsroom/cspan...ica_slides.pdf Rural America Struggles as Young People Chase Jobs in Cities - WSJ

I've seen maps that show the year of peak population. Its interesting how many rural counties in the country had peak population before WWII. Many of the counties in the rapidly growing Texas triangle (Houston/Dallas/Austin/San Antonio) had their peak population before 1900. Massive growth in the urban areas, but decline in between.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

Wow, that was interesting and yet disheartening at the same time... We are constantly told that people are moving back to cities, and that seems to be happening for sure. Yet, we are now aware that Millennials are moving to the suburbs. It grows more doubtful as time wears on that people will remain in cities. It seems that they may just be youthful stepping stones and once they hit child-rearing years they move. At least there is some hope that jobs will follow so we don't have so much commuting.


And it was totally depressing that Dawson county is now seemingly emerging as the "frontier" for developers. I honestly think it's time for Forsyth and Cherokee to declare the northern halves of their counties off-limits to higher density developments.

If one is an advocate for the continuing resurgence of higher-density urban and inner-city/Intown living, the news that growth on the exurban northern fringes of metro Atlanta has resumed at a somewhat fairly robust level should not be taken as bad news or be disheartening.

As many other posters on this thread have stated, people (including Millennials) are still continuing to move to lower-density exurban and outer-suburban areas in outlying counties like Bartow, Cherokee, Forsyth, Dawson, Hall, Bartow and Jackson counties and beyond, both here in metro Atlanta and in other large major metro regions around the country.

The big difference between this era and past waves of metropolitan growth is that more young professionals (such as Millennials in this era) see urban core living as a serious long-term living choice and are choosing to make long-term investments in housing to live in urban core and inner-city/Intown areas.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by bu2

I'm not talking about posts saying suburban sprawl is bad. There are a lot of posts and media articles (which encourage the beliefs that the posters have) that talks about suburbs struggling and how cities are getting all the growth. Those simply aren't true. In Atlanta and nearly everywhere else in the country, suburban counties as a whole are continuing to grow at a higher percentage than the urban areas. That's higher numbers and higher percentages.

The margin has changed. Instead of perhaps (just making up numbers to illustrate the point) 20% suburban and 1% urban growth, now its 15% suburban and 5% urban.

The point I was making is the way the metro is growing it's not flat like Pizza and all suburbs are not the same. I do not clump Gwinnett and Cobb growth with Charokee, and Forsyth.


Atlanta is only 132 sq mi the metro is over 8,000 of course the suburbs are going to grow more. But the inner 1,800 sq mi metro counties are growing more in raw numbers then outer 7,200 sq mi. Most Atlanta growth is not Atlanta sprawling it's the core counties growing denser.



LA is the most dense urban area in the country, LA urban area is denser than NY urban area. There's a blur line between urban and suburban in LA and many of it's Suburbs. Long Beach, Anaheim, Santa Ana, Irvine, Burbank, Beverly Hills, Hollywood, Glendale and etc.


Atlanta is moving that direction, The CoA already has urban and Suburban characteristic, The Cores counties are largely highly populated Suburban area will grow mix with Suburban and urban characteristic here and there.

Not just edge cities and plan edge cities with skyscrapers in the suburbs but cities doing what Smyrna, Sandy Springs, Alpharetta and etc with mix use projects. And these counties still have areas for single family homes in fact a lot of single family developments are moving to smaller lots in the core counties.



A lot of posters isolate the CoA vs All the suburbs or ITP vs OTP and neither make sense to growth patterns or ARC plans.


It's much more CoA, Fulton, Cobb, Clayton, Dekalb, Gwinnett bigger or denser counties Growing more urban and developing

vs..

Cherokee, Henry, Forsyth, Paulding, Bartow, and etc sprawling. Which are exurb or second ring counties.

So basically plot twist........ density is spreading to the suburbs faster than suburbs are sprawling out.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

The point I was making is the way the metro is growing it's not flat like Pizza and all suburbs are not the same. I do not clump Gwinnett and Cobb growth with Charokee, and Forsyth.


Atlanta is only 132 sq mi the metro is over 8,000 of course the suburbs are going to grow more. But the inner 1,800 sq mi metro counties are growing more in raw numbers then outer 7,200 sq mi. Most Atlanta growth is not Atlanta sprawling it's the core counties growing denser.



LA is the most dense urban area in the country, LA urban area is denser than NY urban area. There's a blur line between urban and suburban in LA and many of it's Suburbs. Long Beach, Anaheim, Santa Ana, Irvine, Burbank, Beverly Hills, Hollywood, Glendale and etc.


Atlanta is moving that direction, The CoA already has urban and Suburban characteristic, The Cores counties are largely highly populated Suburban area will grow mix with Suburban and urban characteristic here and there.

Not just edge cities and plan edge cities with skyscrapers in the suburbs but cities doing what Smyrna, Sandy Springs, Alpharetta and etc with mix use projects. And these counties still have areas for single family homes in fact a lot of single family developments are moving to smaller lots in the core counties.



A lot of posters isolate the CoA vs All the suburbs or ITP vs OTP and neither make sense to growth patterns or ARC plans.


It's much more CoA, Fulton, Cobb, Clayton, Dekalb, Gwinnett bigger or denser counties Growing more urban and developing

vs..

Cherokee, Henry, Forsyth, Paulding, Bartow, and etc sprawling. Which are exurb or second ring counties.

So basically plot twist........ density is spreading to the suburbs faster than suburbs are sprawling out.

Growth is not uniform in the suburbs. Many of the southern counties, which don't have as desirable school districts, have been growing slower than C of A. But the northern counties have more than made up for it.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by hautemomma

Cobb is pretty much built out; the less developed areas are comprised of long-time, pre-building boom residential or industrial areas that aren't ripe for subdivision or multi-use development unless someone sells and the zoning is changed. I imagine this is true for non-CoA Fulton and Gwinnett counties as well.

ETA: Many of my neighbors and people in my neighborhood have lived in "dense," highly populated cities, here in the US and internationally, too. As much as some posters here think city living is the second coming, many people in the burbs (who they malign and dismiss habitually, and who happen to range in age from early 30s onward) have already "been there, done that." It's not a new way of life.

No there are still undeveloped parts of Gwinnett and Fulton. Cobb, Dekalb, and much of Clayton is built out.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

With growth in Forsyth County occurring overwhelmingly in the southern part of the county, it's obvious that it's become a lower cost, desirable destination of choice for those who work in northern Fulton County and close-in parts of Gwinnett (e.g., Peachtree Corners).

Actually with an average price of $381,600, Forsyth isn't exactly "low cost."

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

Actually with an average price of $381,600, Forsyth isn't exactly "low cost."

It's tall cotton up there.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by bu2

Growth is not uniform in the suburbs. Many of the southern counties, which don't have as desirable school districts, have been growing slower than C of A. But the northern counties have more than made up for it.

This doesn't contradict or Change anything I said. It still falls in core county vs outer counties.



Forsyth only went

2000.... 98,407
2010.... 175,511



While... Gwinnett went

2000.... 588,448
2010.... 805,321




-----------

While Cobb edge out Cherokee


Cherokee

2000...... 141,903
2010...... 214,346


Cobb

2000..... 607,751
2010..... 688,078

But Fulton went

2000....... 816,006
2010....... 920,581


Besides Clayton because it's only 144 sq mi, The Core counties are 600,000+ to be 700,000+ Counties. The culture, diversity, the development, growth of the core counties are at different pace then that of the outer.

Atlanta being the center city has oblivious ambitious to being more urban, but areas Cobb, Gwinnett, North Fulton, does as well.

My point was suburban growth is becoming more urban and denser. so technically their right urban is becoming more popular then sprawl out.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by hautemomma

Cobb is pretty much built out; the less developed areas are comprised of long-time, pre-building boom residential or industrial areas that aren't ripe for subdivision or multi-use development unless someone sells and the zoning is changed. I imagine this is true for non-CoA Fulton and Gwinnett counties as well.

ETA: Many of my neighbors and people in my neighborhood have lived in "dense," highly populated cities, here in the US and internationally, too. As much as some posters here think city living is the second coming, many people in the burbs (who they malign and dismiss habitually, and who happen to range in age from early 30s onward) have already "been there, done that." It's not a new way of life.

Developers are buying up the old horse farms and large tract parcels to build zero-lot line subdivisions. Cobb still areas to grow, there is a lot of available land in South Cobb.