Plans filed for Brookhaven Marta Redevelopment (Atlanta, Lenox: schools, square footage, income)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Gulch

There actually happens to be about triple that number of apartments coming online within a mile of my home and I have no problem with it whatsoever.

One thing I wonder about is whether apartment dwellers have the same sense of being invested in the city as do homeowners.

Do they participate in civic associations, NPU's, local politics, schools and other organizations designed to look after the long term welfare of the community?

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by arjay57

One thing I wonder about is whether apartment dwellers have the same sense of being invested in the city as do homeowners.

Do they participate in civic associations, NPU's, local politics, schools and other organizations designed to look after the long term welfare of the community?

Yes. I'm one of them.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by arjay57

One thing I wonder about is whether apartment dwellers have the same sense of being invested in the city as do homeowners.

Do they participate in civic associations, NPU's, local politics, schools and other organizations designed to look after the long term welfare of the community?

They pay their sales tax just like everyone else.

You have a source for the bolded text or are you simply extrapolating this belief onto all car commuters? Most of whom don't even have the option of using MARTA.

Most people who have the option of MARTA don't use it. How long have you lived in Atlanta?

And most everyone has the option to hop on a bus to a station. There aren't that many holes ITP that MARTA doesn't cover.

Yes. I'm one of them.

Is this where I can use your argument? "You have a source for the bolded text or are you simply extrapolating this belief onto all apt dwellers?

If you can really look at the mirror and honestly say to yourself, Atlantans as a whole find MARTA to be convenient, congratulations on the greatest sales job of your life.

I have no problem with MARTA being in my hood. I wish it was better. Developing its land to subsidize its operations at the expense of adding thousands of commuters to my immediate footprint/commute is not something I will ever get behind.

[wasel]

Residents around the Brookhaven Marta Station are not reacting to emotion, nor are they against Marta. They are reacting to facts. Ridership from the Brookhaven Station went down down significantly from 2010-2014 despite the addition of hundreds of units. So something is going on there --- either people aren't working near MARTA thus can't use it to commute, or gas prices make it a more attractive alternative to drive-- something has changed the transit pattern but the increased density has not led to increased ridership, but increased traffic jams. They also hear MARTA's own projections that the TOD will add 800-1200 trips a day to Brookhaven transit, yet the number of residential units and office square footage planned for the TOD will accommodate many hundreds more people than that 800-1200 projected commuters. These neighborhoods are left to wonder where these extra people will go? Dresden Drive is a small road, not a Moreland Avenue. On top of all that, you probably aren't aware of the severe sewage overflows happening throughout that part of Brookhaven. Numerous complaints and photos have been filed with the city. Residents are concerned about the fact that infrastructure enhancements have not been addressed as to what will be done to accommodate the new developments and who will pay for them. Residents have simply been expressing concerns about density and the not-overblown impacts on traffic and water/sewer. The neighborhood and MARTA have worked together to create a better plan although I think it's premature to expect a significant increase in ridership.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Yes. I'm one of them.

I am not surprised to hear that, Gulch, but I don't think you are the average bear.

[Forhall]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

So, if I say only rich people fly private. I'm still being classist? Or are you only allowed to talk about poor people to be considered classist?

So, by saying that the people in their $800+ homes are not taking MARTA (fact) that I'm classist.

Learn something new everyday. I'm classist y'all!

I know you think you make yourself sound fancy and elitist by saying that, but you just make it seem like you've never been outside the South and are a bit sheltered. In Europe, Japan, New York, and many cities on the west coast, public transportation is highly desirable and used by all income levels. In the new York suburbs, proximity to a train station can easily double or triple the home values in that town. Michael Bloomberg, a billionaire, used to ride the NY subway to work daily.

Public transportation is not some low class invention you should be turning your nose up at. It really helps large metros function more efficiently and reduces traffic and pollution. It cities that strongly support public transport, it's amazing to be able to go out and spend the entire day just walking from place to place, hopping on a train when you need to go a little further.

You come across as a bit ignorant of this.

[Ant131531]

Usually I'm pro-density and apartments, but if the people of Brookhaven don't want it, then don't build it. Why can't developers just build inside the city? Why are they building these suburban cities that want to stay suburban? Urbanity is for the city. Continue building in and around the urban core.

If people want to live in a city environment, then they need to live IN the city. If there isn't enough supply of apartments for people to live in the city, then BUILD.

[jsvh]

Here is what the NIMBYs don't get:

It is not a choice of if people come or not. It is a choice of where they come to.

Getting around in Atlanta is so terrible because people have been pushed to low density developments further away. Brookhaven quality of life is not made worse by more people living there. It is made worse by more people further away have no option besides driving through there. And they want to live there. We just need to build the options.

The best thing we can do to make getting around easier in metro Atlanta is have the new people moving here (that are coming one way or another) live near walkable, transit connected locations instead of cul de sac in the exurbs.

We don't need everyone to take MARTA all the time to make things way way better. We just need to go for an average of 95% of trips by car to 80%. And make those trips still by car shorter.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Usually I'm pro-density and apartments, but if the people of Brookhaven don't want it, then don't build it. Why can't developers just build inside the city? Why are they building these suburban cities that want to stay suburban? Urbanity is for the city. Continue building in and around the urban core.

If people want to live in a city environment, then they need to live IN the city. If there isn't enough supply of apartments for people to live in the city, then BUILD.

You're assuming that those who speak loudly, represent the majority.

[MattCW]

I'm as pro-transit as you can get, but even I will state reality, and the reality is that most people that live in this new TOD will still drive to work. Unless they work in Lindbergh, Midtown (along MARTA), Downtown or the Airport (the four main employment centers reachable from Brookhaven) they will drive. Brookhaven is just up the street from Buckhead, and unless someone works right at the Lenox MARTA station, they aren't going to pay $95 to go a mile and a half down the line. People aren't going to the CBD of Buckhead by transit either, the only option is to transfer to the Red Line at Lindbergh and double back. If the trains are on-schedule, you can leave Brookhaven at exactly 7:01, transfer at Lindbergh at 7:07, leaving Lindbergh at 7:14, arriving Buckhead at 7:18. Really 7:19 since all northbound trains are 90 seconds late thanks to that slow zone. That's 20 minutes not counting getting out of the station, then getting to your job. So ~25 minutes on the train versus 5-15 driving (per Google Maps) even at that time of the morning.

If there was a reliable bus line or streetcar line that made local stops in Buckhead, then you might see a good deal more ridership between Brookhaven and Buckhead. But as one poster above pointed out, there's a lot of overhead, and possibly a lot of waiting when using the HRT.

Now the other destinations do come out ahead, but considering you will have a lot of people going to Perimeter, Emory, up GA-400, and elsewhere, let's not delude ourselves into thinking everyone at this TOD is going to hop on the train down into Atlanta.

Then there is the reliability factor. I drive, and pass the two MARTA stations I would use in the process. I think my OTP on the train was a bit lower, maybe 92% or so rather than the system-wide 96%. Since I began driving over a year ago, my commute time went down, and the reliability is easily over 99%. I can count on one hand the number of days I've had an abnormal commute while driving. I'd need at least two, maybe three or four hands to count the late days on MARTA.